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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 19:47:36 GMT
I only use Texaco to fill the Rover (TBH, we are not overun with choice in the South West as the Supermarkets have the vast majority of outlets) so I thought I would get the official line on Ethanol in their petrol and here is the response......
Dear Mr Eglinton Thank you for your email dated 7th October 2011 regarding ethanol in fuels. Ethanol was introduced in the UK in order to meet the RTFO (Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation). In order to meet the obligation biodiesel is blended with diesel and ethanol is blended with petrol. The current specifications for petrol in the UK (BS EN228 and BS 7800) allow for up to 5% ethanol. For any petrol containing up to 5% ethanol no additional labelling is required at the pump. If the ethanol content of the petrol is above 5% then there must be clear labelling on the pump stating this (for example E10). Currently in the UK Texaco Unleaded 95 octane may contain up to 5% ethanol. Texaco Super Unleaded and Supreme Unleaded do not contain ethanol but this may change in the future. The expectation is that E10 will come onto the UK market in 2012. It is advisable to speak to your car manufacturer if possible if you have any questions regarding the compatibility of your vehicle with ethanol blended petrol. I hope you will find the information provided useful.
Ends.
The most interesting "new" fact for me in the email is the explanation that Ethanol is not added to Texaco "super" and "supreme" This is news to me and I might as well start to use it as a few more pence expense seems justified even if no apparent damage is showing at the moment.
I assume the engine might pink a bit with the higher octane fuel but pinking has never been an issue on my car. I might give it a go.
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Post by harvey on Oct 7, 2011 19:57:26 GMT
The higher the octane rating, the less likely it is to pink.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 20:18:58 GMT
Yes, you're right,sorry!
Might as well switch even though the Jury's out on the effects of 5% Ethanol on our cars and in view of the fact that the FBHVC has only just started to test additives.
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Post by harvey on Oct 7, 2011 21:11:47 GMT
The expectation is that E10 will come onto the UK market in 2012. It is advisable to speak to your car manufacturer if possible if you have any questions regarding the compatibility of your vehicle with ethanol blended petrol. Good luck with that one.......
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Post by enigmas on Oct 7, 2011 22:56:54 GMT
Ethanol can cause corrosion in vehicles not designed to use this 'fuel additive'. It is due either to its ability to absorb water or retain it...someone on the board may have done further research on ethanol.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 8, 2011 7:31:30 GMT
Have a read on some of the Veteran Vintage Car Motorbike forums and the problems they are having! my friend in the village a Veteran MC guy has had to do all his tanks and several carbs as the "B" stuff eats solder and the tank liner so a new tank lining solution has come out. Also if you Google there are a few products to counteract the effects here is one www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-additive.html Corrosive Qualities Ethanol has a corrosive effect on some older engines manufactured before 1998. This is due to engines of this period still incorporating material susceptible to damage from alcohol, and ethanol's tendency to scour clean the interior of older fuel systems. This cleaning action loosens years of accumulated deposits, causing them to clog fuel filters and small passages in fuel systems, adversely affecting performance. Ethanol has a corrosive effect on rubber, fiberglass and other materials that were once used extensively in automotive engines but are now being phased out of use. Ethanol Compensation After 1998, automakers began incorporating materials that are resistant to ethanol's solvent qualities. Vehicles manufactured after this date also make use of ethanol's distinct advantages allowing them to achieve even greater efficiency. Vehicles manufactured after 1998 experience no ill effects from ethanol, and are designed to operate at optimal performance based on its presence in fuel. Performance Ethanol has the highest performance rating of all fuels on the market and is excellent for use in high compression/high performance engines. Some professional automotive racing teams have switched to 100 percent ethanol for their competition vehicles. Ethanol has properties which allow it to act as antifreeze in fuel, making the addition of additives to gasoline in colder climates unnecessary. Mileage Gas mileage with ethanol is somewhat lower than with traditional gasoline, with the average being 2 percent lower, making this decrease negligible to the average car owner. Read more: The Effect of Ethanol on Cars | eHow.com www.ehow.com/facts_6008467_effect-ethanol-cars.html#ixzz1aApVnIZr
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 9:47:09 GMT
The simple solution seems to be, for present, to use the Texaco petrol with NO Ethanol and than use the additive or whatever the FBHVC come up with in due course when all petrol will contain 10% Ethanol.
I presume many of the other "independents" also supply non-ethanol fuel.
Doesn't this also apply to Motorbikes? Why can't they search out suitable fuel?
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Post by enigmas on Oct 8, 2011 22:34:59 GMT
Convert to LPG
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Post by Warwick on Oct 9, 2011 5:43:06 GMT
In the US they're now starting to see serious corrosion in petrol storage tanks and pipeline systems.
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Post by stoneRover on Oct 10, 2011 22:43:59 GMT
How about the Forum board people pulling together all three threads on Ethanol together in one place so that any Good News and Bad News and Advices can be found in one place.
This is going to be an ongoing problem and it would be a help for people to access the latest news of Products and any Brands of Petrol guaranteed to be still free of Ethonal.
To date Shell V Power now has 5% I have been informed by BP that Ultimat is still Ethonal free but BP are not sure how long they can avoid it. Texaco Super Unleaded and Supreme Unleaded Ethonal free - in this thread but same as BP Texaco cannot say for how long.
It is hoped that both BP and Texaco will announce properly when they have to cave-in and not try to keep it a secret knowing they will lose Customers.
It says a lot about the stuff if Warwicks Tech friend wont use it in his cars !! See other Ethonal thread
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Post by Warwick on Oct 11, 2011 3:14:11 GMT
Not a bad idea Ann.
Maybe we could have a section covering advice on recommended fluids. These are the things that are likely to reduce performance or cause damage to our cars, no longer have the same specifications as those used when the cars were designed, and are consumed regularly.
We already have a good thread on engine oil. I know that much has been said about ATF and power steering fluids, but I can't remember if there is a specific thread containing most of the info. Coolants have been discussed many times and there is probably brake fluid advice somewhere.
Perhaps all that is needed at this stage is for a thread containing links to the other relevant threads.
What I find interesting is that none of this is particularly new. Brazil started adding ethanol to petrol 80 years ago because they had lots of sugar cane waste and they imported petrol. They made it mandatory in the '70s. They've increased the percentage in steps over the years from 5% to the present 25%.
They know how to store and use blends without a problem. How come it seems to be a secret to us late starters?
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Post by stantondavies on Oct 11, 2011 9:58:53 GMT
Not a bad idea Ann. Maybe we could have a section covering advice on recommended fluids. These are the things that are likely to reduce performance or cause damage to our cars, no longer have the same specifications as those used when the cars were designed, and are consumed regularly. We already have a good thread on engine oil. I know that much has been said about ATF and power steering fluids, but I can't remember if there is a specific thread containing most of the info. Coolants have been discussed many times and there is probably brake fluid advice somewhere. Perhaps all that is needed at this stage is for a thread containing links to the other relevant threads. It was precisely for these reasons that I wrote my post on "Spares and Services Information", an electronic booklet to bring all the advice together in one place. I was stunned when it didn't produce any debate. I had, over 20 years, amassed information on all aspects of P5, arranged by subject matter, then my computer crashed and all was lost. It had been backed up on an external hard disk which I dropped five days before the crash, and that no longer works. If only the forum had developed an edited repository of such information.
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Post by stoneRover on Oct 12, 2011 10:39:11 GMT
Warwick regarding the cars in Brazil - from what I have seen on UK TV most of the cars in normal use are 70/80's vehicles scrapped or discarded from UK and are used until they fall apart then dumped and then get another - Prestege cars shipped to Brazil that the Police miss they wouldnt be bothered what Ethonal would do to the vehicle - I wouldnt be surprised if the Black Market have found a way to Distill out the Ethonal for the Eliite of the Country who have the money to pay for it for their New Prestege Cars.
Is there anyone on the Forum that has knowledge of Brazil traffic that can confirm or otherwise what I have seen on TV. This is my own personal views, I hope I havent offended anyone.
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Post by stantondavies on Oct 12, 2011 15:41:57 GMT
Does anyone know if ethanol added to leaded petrol yet?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 12, 2011 20:51:04 GMT
Not many without Ethanol
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Post by Warwick on Oct 13, 2011 3:10:42 GMT
It was precisely for these reasons that I wrote my post on "Spares and Services Information", an electronic booklet to bring all the advice together in one place. I was stunned when it didn't produce any debate. I had, over 20 years, amassed information on all aspects of P5, arranged by subject matter, then my computer crashed and all was lost. It had been backed up on an external hard disk which I dropped five days before the crash, and that no longer works. If only the forum had developed an edited repository of such information. I must have missed that one. Sounds like a good idea although a lot of work for someone - probably Admin. It would have to work differently from the rest of the forum. The problem with purely technical threads is that they can become cluttered with chit chat. On the other hand, it's the chit chat that helps keep this forum alive. Have you had anyone look at your external hard-drive or your computer? If the computer hard-drive itself hasn't failed and it's a Windows crash, there are often ways to recover the data on the drive.
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Post by Warwick on Oct 13, 2011 3:13:36 GMT
Warwick regarding the cars in Brazil - from what I have seen on UK TV most of the cars in normal use are 70/80's vehicles scrapped or discarded from UK and are used until they fall apart then dumped and then get another - Prestege cars shipped to Brazil that the Police miss they wouldnt be bothered what Ethonal would do to the vehicle - I wouldnt be surprised if the Black Market have found a way to Distill out the Ethonal for the Eliite of the Country who have the money to pay for it for their New Prestege Cars. Is there anyone on the Forum that has knowledge of Brazil traffic that can confirm or otherwise what I have seen on TV. This is my own personal views, I hope I havent offended anyone. My understanding was that they have a fairly large car manufacturing base and that the cars are made to take the ethanol. Either way they should have an awful lot of experience regarding what it does and doesn't do.
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
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Post by trymes on Oct 13, 2011 20:46:45 GMT
Everything here is E10 and has been for a while. I have experienced no serious ill effects, and that is including our bulk petroleum storage and delivery vehicles. I may be the exception here, but I have three old British cars and an old American car, and generally consider most, though not all, griping to be based more on fear or coincidence than actual problems. As for technical threads, I am a member of the MG Experience www.mgexperience.net, which is the best forum setup I have ever found for old cars. There is a library section, member journals, and a vehicle registry, all of which add to the community. Also, things like e-mail notifications and avatars, which are a royal pain the backside on this forum (see my signature line) are easy and intuitive. Perhaps the club could work out an agreement with Skye, who runs the MGE and the rest of the Autoshrine network to host the forums for the club, in exchange for ad revenue or who knows what. I would even think that there would be a way to bring the archives over, too. Tom EDIT: I should point out that most problems with ethanol would be found immediately upon switchover, such as old perished rubber lines that are finally put out of their misery by ethanol, etc. Of course, if your fuel lines are old enough to not be ethanol resistant, then perhaps they are due to be changed anyway! Also, water in fuel tanks (this is primarily a problem with underground fuel storage, not autos) will cause the ethanol to drop out of solution with the gasoline (or "de-phase"), leaving you with a layer of pure ethanol and a layer of the rest of the gasoline (which may not be the same as non-ethanol gasoline). This causes havoc with cars when it happens, as they get 100% ethanol from the pump and simply will not run. Any tanks that were subject to this, though, would already have been fixed by now because of the existing 5% solutions.
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Post by stantondavies on Oct 13, 2011 22:19:09 GMT
I must have missed that one. Sounds like a good idea although a lot of work for someone - probably Admin. It would have to work differently from the rest of the forum. The problem with purely technical threads is that they can become cluttered with chit chat. On the other hand, it's the chit chat that helps keep this forum alive. Have you had anyone look at your external hard-drive or your computer? If the computer hard-drive itself hasn't failed and it's a Windows crash, there are often ways to recover the data on the drive. Warwick, see roverp5.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=probs&action=display&thread=5561 which is under Board problems on 11 Sept. I agree about the chit-chat which provides "noise" on the thread, which is why I posted my suggestion, which shouldn't give any admin much extra work, that being done by the posters; I envisage something similar to articles written on Wikipedia which can be amended/added to by others. Regarding the computer, one drive had to be reformatted so all is lost off that one, the second drive shows no files, but properties says 66gb of data is there. So some hope. When I get time I'll try the external hard drive after it has been in the freezer, as this sometimes helps apparently. It just grinds and squeals away at the moment. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Post by vincentacres on Oct 13, 2011 22:35:46 GMT
Regarding the remaining hard drive - it is often possible to recover some or all of the files if they are still there - it sounds as if something mechanical is at fault rather than the actual data held on the disc itself.
However you will require the services of an expert with the appropriate forensic software and equipment to do this for you and you will have to weigh up the cost against the value of the material to be (hopefully) recovered.
As always there are no guarantees.
Regards,
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