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Post by parispp on Jun 20, 2012 1:08:07 GMT
OK - firstly forgive my lack of expertise (I know how to add fuel and change tyres and batteries  ). Our P5 MK III Coupe was running seamlessly - had a ding when someone hit from behind. Repaired beautifully then played up on the way home from the panel beater (really rough) then would not turn over at all (shuddered into deathly quiet and would not turn over at all). Has been at the mechanics for 2.5 months now going from distributor to coil and now starter motor (after plugs and points). An electronic ignition was fitted some years back (issue?) - - just wondering if anyone has any ideas? It apparently kind of turns over but really rough and hard to get going. Our mechanic is really puzzled by it (has worked on the car for years and at a loss as to why it just happened.) It seems everything working order but the engine wont run/turn over. Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated! Wits end and want the car back! |
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Post by Baldrick on Jun 20, 2012 6:38:44 GMT
Is there good fuel pressure and supply to carbs?
Is the float in the carb working?
Spray quick start into manifold and see if it fires.
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jun 20, 2012 11:48:47 GMT
Sounds like mechanical failure to do with the timing but simple things first. ( I know you have said some of this but its what I would do in your place) Check the engine earth strap. Swap back to mechanical from electronic ignition. Check plugs, replace leads, cap, rotor, points and condensor. Remove distributor and check nothing broken off inside engine. Check all ignition/distributor/coil wiring for shorts. Carb would not affect turning over. After that its mechanical in the engine. Does it turn over freely by hand with the plugs removed?
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Post by Baldrick on Jun 20, 2012 12:42:23 GMT
Reading this again, i cant make sense of what you have written... Has it been at the mechanics for 2.5 months to have the starting problem sorted or was the 2.5 months for the baody repair? When you say "going from distributor to coil and now starter motor" do you mean the mechanic has been trouble shooting these components? you say " it appararently kind of turns over but really roughly" and then later say "it seems everything working order but the engine wont run/ turn over." Does the starter motor turn the engine but the engine doesnt start? or does the engine start but not run/fire properly Agree with Roy, fuel will not affect turning over, but if the engine is turning over and wont start or run properly then it is either ignition electrics or fuel supply from tank to carbs, or carbs to engine. Did the car run properly at any stage after you collected it? did it run well and then gradually get worse. Or was it runnig bad from when you started driving? How far did you get from the mechanics prior to stopping? is there clean fuel in the tank? Is there any fuel in the tank. My suggestion for spraying "quick start" (ether) into the inlet manifold is to identify whether you have any spark in the engine. As the car got a bang from the rear, it is possible that dirt in the tank could have been dislodged and blocked the tank outlet or the fuel filter. If the tank was removed for the repairs to take place it is possible that lines were damaged or not connected properly are reinstallation. Did the mechanic do any work on the engine when he was doing the body work? Are the plug lead connect the right way? If you can clarify my questions, it will make it easier for people to help. Remember that even new parts can fail as well as old parts.  |
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jun 20, 2012 13:01:22 GMT
Ditto, more info!  |
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on Jun 20, 2012 13:23:14 GMT
Parispp: More of the same advice from me. Also, where are you located? Your profile doesn't specify, and I could assume France, but that would be a pretty big assumption....
Basically, it comes down to this:
1.) When you crank the engine over, does it crank like normal, or does it sound odd?
2.) Does it catch and start running at all, or will it not fire?
3.) Do you have fuel at the carburetor?
4.) Do you have spark at the plugs?
Once we know the answers to these questions we can move forward!
Tom
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Post by corbin on Jun 20, 2012 16:30:29 GMT
;DHow about changing the mechanic?
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Post by Pete Collins on Jun 20, 2012 20:03:00 GMT
Corbin does not tell us his location either.
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Post by Warwick on Jun 21, 2012 4:13:15 GMT
He's an hour or 2 from where I am Tom.
Paris,
For future reference, it's a good idea to make the title of a thread identify its content or subject matter. It's possible that the responses you receive here will be of interest to others at a later date and a well-chosen thread heading makes topic searching much easier for others later on - sometimes years later.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 21, 2012 7:06:53 GMT
A very good point Warwick I didn't change the Title as it is the posters choice .
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Post by Colin McA on Jun 22, 2012 18:02:59 GMT
make sure that the earth from the battery is good to the body at the battery especially if it had rear end damage.
Colin
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Post by parispp on Jun 23, 2012 2:55:46 GMT
Thanks Everyone for the replies! The mechanic has been great for years but this seems to have him stumped. Some of these sound like possible solutions so will let him know. For the chronology - 3 months ago was rear ended (no fuel tank involved - just cosmetic) and at the time running beautifully. After repairs (nice work) the car immediately started running really rough on the way home. Seemed to be the spark plugs. Checked those and all new and fine. Tried starting and it would turn over but idled like an old nun. Then coughed and died and would not start again. Mechanic came and we had to tow 2.5 months ago and he has been systematically go through the lot and it perplexes him when everything tests as 'working'. He sent off the distributor again for replacement in case (also wondering as some other berko added EFI which might have effed things). But some of these ideas I am not sure he has mentioned (he may have done them but not told)
Based in Brighton in Victoria Australia! Crap weather right now so NOT happy!! Taking the MG for a spin today and hoping all fine there! Will make sure my posts make more sense. Thanks again for all the great replies. Saving now to make the interior like new and considering a two tone pain job - cream roof and leave the rest black.
On a different note - I got a St. Christopher Rover Medal for the front bumper and assume I need some other attachment for it (like a rod).
Cheers - off to start the car!
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Post by Smallfry on Jun 23, 2012 10:08:13 GMT
A shunt from behind.......................
Asuming the car was running and performing fine prior to this, you dont actually say ?
If so, my thoughts would be either..........
Battery not re connected properly.
Disturbance to battery leads now causing high resistance, so check both earth and main supply cable for condition and damage.
Battery is a bit old and shunt had disturbed the plates, or disturbed the sediment which causes semi cell failure. Get battery drop tested, voltage will tell you nothing. You can also do this by lifting an older battery and tlting it too much.
High resistance can cause failure of your starter motor, especially if the engine is continually cranked over to try and start it.
The other thing I am thinking is maybe that sediment in the petrol tank has been disturbed, and has been suck into the feed pipes causing a partial blockage or intermittent problem.
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jun 23, 2012 17:45:30 GMT
Was the exhaust pipe hit? Could it have moved forwards and impacted something else or damaged the head?
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Post by parispp on Jun 25, 2012 2:29:41 GMT
Hi Roy, exhaust was not hit. It ran fine for a few weeks after the ding then ran like crap after the repairs. Could have been a coincidence but added the recent history in case. We should know today hopefully if the replacement part is the missing link..... I sent along to the mechanic everybody's ideas - fingers crossed all covered. Let you know if I have a car again.
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Post by parispp on Jun 27, 2012 8:02:16 GMT
Update - car now running perfectly. Coil was just a little hows your father but the EFI needed replacing altogether - so all hunky dory! Running like a dream again!
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on Jun 27, 2012 11:09:41 GMT
EFI? I think you mean electronic ignition?
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Post by parispp on Jun 28, 2012 1:32:17 GMT
No trymes - a previous person thought a good idea would be to install electronic fuel injection (EFI) into the car - so it has had that running for the last few years.
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on Jun 28, 2012 2:41:49 GMT
On a 3-Litre? Or is this a 3.5 Litre?
EDIT: I just re-read your initial post and confirmed you have a 3-Litre. I would LOVE more information about that setup!
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Post by parispp on Jun 28, 2012 7:32:31 GMT
Sorry trymes - screwed up - I was given the wrong message by the previous owner ....... and the wires were crossed - its electronic ignition as everyone said - (NOT EFI - but would love that) - thought I had better go straight to the original source for clarification so I knew what was going on! Forgive me - new at this restoration thing but will get it eventually - its been the daily working car for the last 15 years and still going strong.
Will post pics of before and after but it will take some time and $!!! Just managed to find the engine and body shell match records so I know its pretty original - the paint colour(s) seem to have been white then grey and now black. Sticking with black but might get a white roof to help keep it cooler for the Australian heat..... so much to do!
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Post by Warwick on Jun 28, 2012 10:52:48 GMT
He may have referred to it as CDI, hence your confusion. Capacitor discharge ignition was the original high performance electronic ignition system. Many modern systems are nothing more than electronic substitutes for the points.
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Post by djm16 on Jul 7, 2012 5:56:25 GMT
Checking for fuel coming in, spark coming in, compression and then timing all seem pretty standard sorts of operations and really should not have been much of a challenge, non?
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Post by parispp on Jul 7, 2012 7:58:58 GMT
Yes djm - all clear now - spark was coming through, fuel coming in etc. Electronic ignition got semi-fried at the panel beaters as they left it on while fixing the smash - hence the correlation with dates (i think its not the best one available - Piranha or something and I have been recommended Bosch). Running back to her usual self.
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Post by Warwick on Jul 7, 2012 8:37:26 GMT
Piranha is a good one, Paris.
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). Our P5 MK III Coupe was running seamlessly - had a ding when someone hit from behind. Repaired beautifully then played up on the way home from the panel beater (really rough) then would not turn over at all (shuddered into deathly quiet and would not turn over at all).
