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Post by Eric R on Jan 25, 2017 15:05:00 GMT
Does leather describe the whole seating? Local trimmer suggests that only the pleated squab and and face of the seats are leather and all the remainder is vinyl - seat backs, armrests and head restraints etc. Will P5 front head restraints fit the P5B?
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Post by Simon H on Jan 25, 2017 15:56:42 GMT
Yes, the upholstery is a mix of leather and vinyl as you describe. I don't know if the earlier headrests will fit on later seats but I'm sure someone will be along soon who does know
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Post by petervdvelde on Jan 25, 2017 18:20:21 GMT
On my car the seat base (where you sit on) is leather, the sides of the base are vinyl. On the back piece of the front seat the front and the sides are leather. The rear cover of the front seats is vinyl, the arm rest is leather and the head restraints are vinyl. The back seats have the same set up
Peter
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 25, 2017 19:15:12 GMT
Early head rests have cranked "spine" to fit the thicker seat backs first used in Mk3's
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Post by velvet on Jan 25, 2017 21:21:53 GMT
Vynle was only used for economic reasons as leather was much more expensive than it is today. It takes 3½ hides and 3m vynle to trim 4 seats in a P5 in the usual leather/vynle combination. (another 5m vynle to do the rest of the car, ie; door-cards, front&rear shelves bposts and all pipings etc.) Picture 'C' shows all the panels cut for a P5b driver seat, and you dont get much change out of 1 hide. (nowadays i do all my retrims on P5s in real leather, particularly the 4 seats 'FULL LEATHER', but i will always give the option of vynle or leather on the rest of the stuff.) .
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Post by petervdvelde on Jan 26, 2017 7:17:11 GMT
Those seats look very very nice!
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Post by velvet on Feb 2, 2017 15:35:53 GMT
There's no doubt at all about it ! The best front seats in the P5 range is the MK111, These two beauties are going in a P5b.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 2, 2017 16:15:49 GMT
They look very nice velvet and no foam to worry about replacing but would look better in a Mk3! if they are going in a coupe I hope the passengers have short legs if not the driver will need to have short legs
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 2, 2017 18:10:52 GMT
There is foam in Mk3's they are virtually the same as early P5B's with the thick seat backs. Mk2's and has rubberised Dunlopillo stuff for the front seats with some horsehair
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Post by enigmas on Feb 2, 2017 21:14:15 GMT
My car is a MK3...and yes the front seat back rests are very wide and I can understand why they were narrowed down for the P5Bs, but then I prefer not to have rear seat passengers in my car unless they are my grand children.
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Post by velvet on Feb 2, 2017 22:46:21 GMT
Has anyone ever measured how much extra leg-room the P5b offers the rear passengers as opposed to the Mk111? And can anybody tell me if the floor-pan fixing position (where the runners bolt to the floor-pan) is in exactly the same point in the car on a P5b & MK111 ?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 3, 2017 10:03:02 GMT
The runners and position are exactly the same velvet and the only difference is in the seat back, if you sit in the back of a coupe with the thinner backs and you have longish legs it can be tight so the Mk3 seat makes the problem worse, according to the parts manual they are the same part number!!! The MK3 had a very short production run late 1965 to 1967 from memory so should be treasured! I had one and it was a great car
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Post by velvet on Feb 3, 2017 16:45:16 GMT
Yes interesting you should say that John, (same part-number), That means that the only reason the P5b has more legroom at the rear is because the driver can afford to have the seat more forward to reach the pedals as his backrest foam is inch & a half thinner but anchored at the same point in the car. ( And that is Rover Genious ! Fixed the problem without having to re-design the whole seat or tooling) Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 3, 2017 17:13:23 GMT
Good old Rover velvet just to clarify for the guys when you say seat you mean the base/cushion! seat to a lot of guys is the complete thing!
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 3, 2017 19:02:56 GMT
1.5 inches - we had a very early P5B saloon with the thick late Mk3 seats (early Mk3 have a map pocket on the front seat cushion) and a 1969 Saloon with the thin back seats
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Post by velvet on Feb 3, 2017 22:12:04 GMT
Yes Phil,, it looks like a lot more but its actually only just over 1.5 inches fatter and also doesn't taper off ( gradient top to bottom ) as the p5b does. Interesting that the early MK111's had a mappocket at the seat base, i didn't know that.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 4, 2017 11:11:18 GMT
So how far forward do the seat squabs protrude velvet?
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Post by velvet on Feb 4, 2017 11:22:43 GMT
I don't know what you mean by 'protrude' John.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 4, 2017 13:52:22 GMT
I know the foam in the squabs is a lot deeper velvet I just wondered by how much?
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Post by velvet on Feb 4, 2017 15:13:03 GMT
Actually John if you're refering to the front seats of a MK111 the backrest is 1.5 inches deeper but surprisingly enough the seat squab is not any deeper, its actually the same depth as the p5b seat.
What is different about it is that the p5b has a chipfoam base-foam and the mark111 has a different type (usually yellow) which is actually an early type 'closed cell foam' ( the same stuff they make swimming pool noodles out of ) and is much firmer and denser than chipfoam and also doesn't crumble like chipfoam.
The other thing i'd like to mention is what i've seen called on here Dunlopillo, Yes on the p5b it is dunlopillo, but dunlopillo is a 'Marque/Brand'. the actual material is "Latex Foam" , and on the MK11 the Latex foam is not dunlopillo but a different brand.
( Although its true that dunlop was the company that introduced air to latex so basically they invented it.) Latex foam is far superior to sponge foam and has a much longer memory,
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 4, 2017 17:20:45 GMT
This is a terminology thing Velvet the parts book call the seat back the "Squab" and the base the "Cushion" so it makes a bit more sense now I had Mk3 type foam in one side front back/squab and one side of a rear cushion!!
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Post by barryr on Jun 1, 2017 13:03:33 GMT
You guys have inspired me and I have taken the plunge and begun to address my seats. I'm happy with the whole softening, cleaning, filling and repainting piece.
I've started with the worst being the drivers seat splitting the back and the base and removing the back cover to expose the (non-existent) foam. I have a new block of chip foam ready to go in.
The question I want to ask is about seams. I am lucky in having only one split seam on the normal area being the base of the seat that I temporarily bodged about 20 years ago! but I've also noticed the rear squab seams (by your shoulders) are just starting to loosen. what I want to know is how to repair these as there appears to be a tape stitched across them which gives way. I am ok with a hand needle but dont have a machine. Do you think I could simply take the covers to an upholsterer and ask them to simply restitch the seams?
oh - and i forgot to say one of the pleated seams in the base has also split!
finally - I know there was mention that the sides of the front seats are vinyl but looking at mine I am fairly certain they are all leather. Only the back board part is vinyl covered as far as i can tell?
Barry
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 1, 2017 14:09:41 GMT
Don't even attempt to machine stitch Barry if your not confident using a needle outsource it but to be honest with a bit of practice you can do it
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Post by petervdvelde on Jun 1, 2017 15:41:21 GMT
Barryr,
What i did is clean and soften the leather first (otherwise the leather could "break" during stitching), then restitched the 2 "main" seams per seat part and then did a first coat of paint before the covers were fitted to the seat base. In this way you can paint all edges. Then add some new foam and fit the covers to the seats. Its a lot of work and takes more time then making a new one (if you know how to do this). Using a sewing machine would weaken the leather as its not possible to use the old holes with a machine and i don't think you can reach the whole seam with a machine as the fabrication sequence was different. I would do all the "main" (2 per seat element) seams as it would be painful if a seam would com loose a few month after spending much time on the seats
Peter
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Post by velvet on Jun 1, 2017 22:20:59 GMT
barryr, the double stitch seams you're refering to are called 'French Seams' (pic 1) and the reason they are so difficult to repair is because both ends are trapped by the piping which is stitched over the seams at both ends (pic 2) , so to gain access you've got to access under the piping which means un-stitching a few inches of the piping both at the flutes end and the border end, unstitching whats left of the french seam so its completely seperated, cleaning up the old thread and then restitching the the centre of the seam (inside-out of course) then turning it over and stitch in the 2 top visible seams, and then restitch the few inches of piping which you unstitched for access,,, all this on leather that is almost 50 years old and has the integrity of cardboard and zero stretch (flexibility). you can do it but its very hit-and-miss on success rate. As for the seam coming undone on the flutes well rover used the 'back-tacking system on stitching the flutes (pic 3) which means that once a flute is stitched, the next flute closes access to the stitching on the previous one so basically you cant get at the seam you want to re-stitch,, the trick is to cut the platform cloth which sits under the flutes, re-stitch the offending flute and then the only option you are left with is to stick using adhesive a piece of cloth, cotton linen or any thin fabric under the flute you just re-stitched to stop the foam strip falling out of it. ( BTW i still use the back-tacking system myself although most trimmers nowadays use more modern methods.) So i hope i haven't put you off but it is what it is. So take the covers to a local trimmer or upholsterer and he will advise you whether he can do it or not, it wont cost you anything to ask. Attachment Deleted
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