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Post by enigmas on Mar 23, 2018 19:36:58 GMT
Thanks Peter...that's very clear. I note that you've got the rubber mount in a 'shear' orientation.
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Post by petervdvelde on Mar 23, 2018 20:50:30 GMT
Thanks I note that you've got the rubber mount in a 'shear' orientation. That's true Vince. Its in more or less the same position as with the BW35. I remember thinking about the shear position but in the end left it that way and on my daily P5B i don't have any problems and i haven't seen sheared rubber mounting on a P5B. There is angled piece of steel in the original set up which functions like a help when the rubber mount fails. I also added this Peter
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Post by enigmas on Mar 24, 2018 0:17:39 GMT
It looks fine to me Peter, I know how thorough your work is...and that you would have certainly considered the load. I did notice the 'fail safe' plate above it. As an aside Peter could you post some relevant information re: The Control Cable. To be more precise...from where the ferrule is when it is at rest (i.e., 'no tension on the cable' to how far the cable is withdrawn at say 7/8" throttle (or just before where kickdown would occur or its equivalent if it is relevant to the transmission) and also... how far the cable is withdrawn at absolute full throttle.
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Post by enigmas on Mar 24, 2018 7:01:45 GMT
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Post by enigmas on Mar 25, 2018 4:05:31 GMT
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Post by petervdvelde on Mar 25, 2018 19:14:28 GMT
As an aside Peter could you post some relevant information re: The Control Cable. To be more precise...from where the ferrule is when it is at rest (i.e., 'no tension on the cable' to how far the cable is withdrawn at say 7/8" throttle (or just before where kickdown would occur or its equivalent if it is relevant to the transmission) and also... how far the cable is withdrawn at absolute full throttle. [/quote] Vince, On my daily P5B, i modified the existing bracket for the BW35 control cable which is the type that sits on the rear part of the manifold BW35 bracket modified bracket As you can see in the pictures above, the arm where the control cable is fitted to is made a bit smaller as the stroke of the ZF cable is less then the BW35 cable. Haven't documented it all very well and don't know the stroke but will check this later this week. I fitted the Sherpa inlet manifold (with later model SU carbs) on the project Rover so i didn't need to modify the control cable set up. Peter
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Post by enigmas on Mar 25, 2018 21:46:50 GMT
Thanks for that info on the control cable Peter. When you get around to providing more detailed information, could you also measure the length of the lever on the manifold that pulls/withdraws the cable (centre to centre measurements), as this should then provide the correct sweep for minimum and maximum cable movement if your setup is replicated.
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Post by vincentacres on Mar 26, 2018 0:46:20 GMT
Gents, I’m no expert on the operation of these gearboxes so others may be able to provide or correct my info here but I believe there needs to be ‘some’ tension on the cable at throttle rest position as this controls the pump line pressure. Adjusting this tension will affect smoothness of changes but having no tension as I understand it will have a detrimental effect on the gearbox pump over time.
It might be worth Peter and I comparing ours just to get a rough baseline although different boxes may vary and different drivers will have different preferences for how the gearbox performs.
I am running an Edelbrock Performer manifold with a simple throttle body for LPG and I fabricated a simple kickdown mechanism but worked out the length of the lever while the box was out from memory...
Owen.
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Post by enigmas on Mar 26, 2018 1:59:20 GMT
Sounds like a good idea to me Owen. The ZF XJ40 trans that I'm using still has the cable attach with the ferrule fixed in place. I presume it (ferrule) has been crimped in it's current location to ensure initial pressures are correct for the vehicle it came from...so for the present and until I eventually drive this setup, I'll leave it as is.
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Post by Sam Bee on Mar 26, 2018 22:21:08 GMT
This is as per the P6 V8 so the bracket is available second hand. By the way, it is attached to the L/H head, not the manifold.
I am fitting SU HIF6 carbs to mine but retaining the BW35, using that self same bracket for the 'kickdown' cable, exactly as you have; and I'll use a P6B cable for correct length. Have you retained the throttle cable connection as standard P5B?
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Post by enigmas on Mar 27, 2018 6:36:41 GMT
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Post by petervdvelde on Mar 27, 2018 21:34:05 GMT
Looking good Vince!. I see you used some hand brake rods and clevis for the shifting mechanism. I recently finished fitting the handbrake and it is amazing how many parts are used for the hand brake system but it is bullet proof and will last for ever. Your shifting mechanism also is and is in the original Rover P5 style.
Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on Mar 27, 2018 21:54:03 GMT
This is as per the P6 V8 so the bracket is available second hand. By the way, it is attached to the L/H head, not the manifold. I am fitting SU HIF6 carbs to mine but retaining the BW35, using that self same bracket for the 'kickdown' cable, exactly as you have; and I'll use a P6B cable for correct length. Have you retained the throttle cable connection as standard P5B? On the P5B there are 2 different brackets. One is on the cylinder head and the other has a much longer cable and is attached to the thread on the manifold on the carbs (see the picture below.) I used the P5b cable but made some mods to the cable but can't remember it very well. I believe i had to remove a bit of the outer cable, It is possible that my manifold from the Sherpa differs from yours. I know the Sherpa linkages are different from the SD1 and Range Rover ones Peter
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stef
Rover Rookie
Posts: 45
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Post by stef on Mar 28, 2018 15:12:55 GMT
Hello ;how do you make the speedometer cable ? Stef
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Post by petervdvelde on Mar 28, 2018 17:04:54 GMT
Stef,
The only box which has a mechanical speedo is the one from the Sherpa van. You need to get hold of a Sherpa van speedo cable and a Rover cable and then Speedo Richfield make a new cable using the Sherpa van connection to the length you specified. Sadly the speedo reading is 25-30% to low. Speedo Richfield can make a small gearbox to solve this but i haven;t done this yet. If a Jaguar box is used, you can buy a digital speedo from the US (dakota digital)
This ZF box is the best mod i have done to a car.
Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 2, 2018 10:50:47 GMT
Thanks for that info on the control cable Peter. When you get around to providing more detailed information, could you also measure the length of the lever on the manifold that pulls/withdraws the cable (centre to centre measurements), as this should then provide the correct sweep for minimum and maximum cable movement if your setup is replicated. A little late reply as i more or less forgot it. Access is a bit difficult with the air filter housing but i managed to take some measurements. The length of the lever from center pivot point to center of the the cable pin is 32mm When making this, i measured the stroke of the BW and ZF cable and on my box the ZF stroke was a bit smaller so i reduced the arm length with the percentage of the stroke differences. The stroke itself is 38mm on my ZF box Regards Peter
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Post by enigmas on Apr 3, 2018 0:36:37 GMT
Thanks for that info on the control cable Peter. When you get around to providing more detailed information, could you also measure the length of the lever on the manifold that pulls/withdraws the cable (centre to centre measurements), as this should then provide the correct sweep for minimum and maximum cable movement if your setup is replicated. A little late reply as i more or less forgot it. Access is a bit difficult with the air filter housing but i managed to take some measurements. The length of the lever from center pivot point to center of the the cable pin is 32mm When making this, i measured the stroke of the BW and ZF cable and on my box the ZF stroke was a bit smaller so i reduced the arm length with the percentage of the stroke differences. The stroke itself is 38mm on my ZF box Regards Peter Thanks for that info on the control cable Peter. PS. When you say 'the stroke' is 38mm, do you mean the total movement from the fixed ferrule when the cable is at rest (idle) to the full throttle position when it is fully withdrawn for your application?
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 3, 2018 15:58:16 GMT
PS. When you say 'the stroke' is 38mm, do you mean the total movement from the fixed ferrule when the cable is at rest (idle) to the full throttle position when it is fully withdrawn for your application?
Yes Vince
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Post by enigmas on Apr 13, 2018 9:29:57 GMT
Further Rear Mount Modifications There's the reading of information and there's purposefully absorbing information. Although I had read the information available to me I really didn't process the comments regarding the transmission being tiltled from the vertical 5° - 10° (guesstimate). This only occurs when using the Range Rover bell housing...being quite obvious and readily observed by simply viewing the Range Rover trans sump. I'm sure both Owen and Peter mentioned the trans orientation to me on their installations. The base of the RR bell housing is flat though and this provides an ideal reference point to ensure that the rear mount is fabricated level. The actual twist physically is 1" (25mm) from side to side. What this meant for my project was a little mod to the rear mount...a bit of cut, heat, bend and reweld. It's now oriented correctly to bolt up to the back of the engine. Transmission Sump. This will need to be sectioned and 1" (25mm) of metal added to the low side so that the base is horizontal and not on an angle. The 2 opposing sides will require a pie cut section (or V piece). I may also modify the filter pickup and the trans dipstick to ensure it reads the correct level. Here are a few pictures of the modified mount illustrating the correct orientation. The PS side of the trans mount (facing the viewer) has had an extra inch added to correctly orientate the transmission. This view shows the DS gear selection lever and rod. This will be connected to the existing MK3 linkages. I've also increased the angle and length of this lever to improve ease of gear selection with the OEM MK3 trans column selector. Bell Housing Ears (for want of a better term) I'll be cutting these off (as are those on my BW35 installation) to promote the movement of hot air out of the bell housing. Currently the bell housing creates an air tight cavity for the torque convertor. I'll also use copper tube to and from the air cooled trans cooler (MK3 unit) as is currently being used for my BW35 trans. The ZF coolant lines are of slightly larger diameter.
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 13, 2018 22:30:18 GMT
Looking good Vince. Regarding the sump: would it not be easy to source a Range rover sump and fluid level indicator?
Peter
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Post by enigmas on Apr 13, 2018 23:35:15 GMT
I have 2 ZF transmissions Peter. The Jaguar and a Range Rover. The RR sump as it is, is too deep and the Jag version obviously tilted, isn't the way I want it either. Modifying one or the other to suit the installation is an easy task. Same for the dipstick(s), depending upon which one I want to use.
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Post by enigmas on Apr 23, 2018 10:42:32 GMT
'A' Clutch Fix Helpful Links This ZF is from a BMW but the images and text provide useful information. twrite.org/shogunnew/fixes/clutchplates.html#A_clutch_rebuildThis is a seal replacement kit for the A Clutch shaft. I've only included it for reference purposes. The white teflon seals can be purchased individually for $2 - $3 ea from most reputable auto transmission parts suppliers (not rebuilders). This little kit will set you back $80 - $100 depending upon where you purchase it! That's not a bad markup for pure BS. NB. For the Aussies in Victoria try 'Motospecs' Transmission Parts Suppliers in Springvale. (ZF & BW35/40/51) The Youtube videos below illustrate a cheap, viable method to use when fitting these teflon seals. Note: This is not a ZF trans but just observe the method. The seals stretch during fitting to the shaft. They then need to be resized before the shaft is slide back into the drum. (It can be a pig of a thing to fit if you've never done it before and of you don't resize the seal it can be damaged during the process) m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz1hPhZ9NfAm.youtube.com/watch?v=UKXkySPlXycSome other relevant pix from my XJ40 ZF trans.
OEM cast iron and teflon seals A clutch frictions. Original and new. Note: Both are .062" - 063" thick. I could have left the original frictions in place. There are 6 frictions. The A clutch frictions are smaller in diameter than the BW35 frictions.
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Post by enigmas on Apr 24, 2018 11:40:26 GMT
Transmission Cooling Trivia.Re: GM, Buick, Oldsmobile, Rover, Leyland P76 (215ci, 3.5 & 4.4 litre Engine Block Trivia) Link: www.britishv8.org/Articles/Buick-Aluminum-Engine.htmQuote: "Two air inlets are provided in the flywheel housing of the cylinder block for the Air-Cooled Dual Path transmission. These inlets are covered by the die cast flywheel and clutch housings when the Synchromesh transmission is specified."
NB. Most if not all the P76 V8 BW35 transmission bell housings that I've seen or used have had the 'ears' on the housing that cover these air inlets removed. I have no specific knowledge as to whether this was done by the Factory or by subsequent repairers. I note that the transmission and the torque convertor are not primarily air cooled (for this particular installation), most using the lower radiator tank as a heat exchanger for the ATF, but I believe that allowing heated air to evacuate the confines of the bellhousing may assist the torque convertor in a shedding some heat through convection. Similarly I'll be doing it with the Range Rover ZF bell housing. * My coupe has never had the air inlets on the block covered in the 26 years of my ownership...20 of those years being a daily driver.
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Post by enigmas on May 9, 2018 6:42:56 GMT
ZF4HP22 Pan & Pickup Variations.
(Range Rover & XJ40) I'm going to take a few measurements of both oil pans and oil pickups to see what can be either swapped, changed or chopped to improve the installation and also oil available to the transmission. A few Observations.When this transmission is fitted to a P5B (in this case...but it also applies to any installation that uses the Range Rover bellhousing in a sedan) the transmission sits slightly rotated about 1" from vertical.) This means the trans oil dipstick never reads correctly when the car is on level ground. Comparing both dip sticks/tubes when fitted to the original vehicles it seems apparent (to me) that the ATF full level is actually level with the mating point of the pan to the transmission or the gasket surface. Tilting/rotating the transmission 1" obviously lowers the level on one side of the XJ40 pickup by 1" and makes it higher on the other side by 1". This then becomes its normally running state on a level surface...which is most of the time. The Range Rover pickup being a bent tube is always immersed in a sump cavity...so variations in angle have no effect and there's no likely hood of 'sucking' air rather than ATF! More to come...
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Post by enigmas on May 10, 2018 8:43:39 GMT
ZF4HP22 Pan & Pickup Variations & Alterations
(Range Rover & XJ40) I did some work on the oil pans and filter pickup today. The Range Rover sump was slightly sectioned effectively raising the oil pickup depression. The RR pickup was cut shorter to accommodate this. The sectioned piece of the sump was then slotted at the corners to enable a reduction in height. The piece was then tack welded back. Viewing the sump from the rear looking forward to the bell housing base it can be seen that the trans pan is now level with it. The aim was to both reduce the underhang of the OEM RR pan, maintain an increased trans oil capacity as well as having the trans dipstick read correctly. Here are some pix of the work carried out today. Some of the pix are self explanatory so no text. Jaguar ZF filter & trans oil pickup. The RR sump. The OEM RR oil pickup. The RR filter pickup and the Jag filter pickup. The RR pickup filter fitted to the Jag ZF. The RR sump fitted to the Jag ZF. Note the bellhousing base is not visible. This image shows the 'flattened' hump both level and visible with the bellhousing base. This image shows the cutdown pickup. The trans oil pickup can just be seen through the cutout in the corner Looking at the pan now the only thing that bothers me is the protruding drain bolt...so I'll either recess it or move it to the inclined section at the front of the reduced pan hump.
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