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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 12, 2019 14:59:45 GMT
I continued with " operation re-underseal " today and did some more under the car. LOL. Rewarding stuff and it gives me a chance also to have a good look at things underside.
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Post by JohnC on Jan 15, 2019 13:50:38 GMT
2019 has started out as a very lucky year for me. The start of a new year means getting my P5b Coupe up in the air and carrying out is annual service, which also included front disc replacement. I tend to maintain the old girl inline with a programme of PPM (planned preventative maintenance). All was going well until after returning for a quick test run, I pulled the bonnet cable and it came away in my hand. The inner cable snapped just as the bonnet popped. It would have been a completely different experience had the cable snapped and the bonnet stayed closed. "That was lucky".
JRW supplied a new bonnet cable so to make my life a little easier I was able to remove the old inner then slide the new through the old outer.
Job done, P5b ready for 2019. Happy Rovering
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 15, 2019 14:34:29 GMT
Lucky escape indeed JohnC.
I also plan to do the same PPM method over the course of my ownership with mine. Today I did a little self investigation on my rear heater system under the seat. Took the top cover off and looked inside. Core looks ok and no signs of leaks from it inside the fan box which is a good sign. Went underneath and slightly loosened the hose clamps and I got immediate drips of coolant so re-tightened them both back up. TBH with my front valve seized I was not expecting any coolant to come out at the rear but it just tells me the pipes are indeed full of antifreeze which is probably a good thing where the pipes are concerned and will deffo need a bowl under there if I take them off to catch the fluid.
I paid a visit to Colin Gould in Faringdon yesterday and he showed me a P5B with the engine out which gave me a better view of all the front engine bay heater pipes and the valve. It looks easy to remove and I have some pipe plugs coming later today so I can cap off the pipes once disconnected from the valve and I don't loose too much coolant. I can then remove my heater valve and see if I can get it freed off. I'll let you all know if I am successful or not. If I can get it all free and working ok I can then see if my heater system gets better and heat to the rear with leak free pipes. If not I will do as David has done and replace the entire system with a new thermostat and water pump and bigger radiator for good measure and then i'll be sure its all new and should not need looking at again in my ownership.
Its the cost of it all that scares me but hey ho.
Cheers.
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Post by ray on Jan 16, 2019 11:07:40 GMT
Brendan, If you are 'doing' the rear heater, it might be worth considering replacing the rear heater supply hose. I did an article in Take Five about a year back. One of my hoses 'ballooned' and 'popped' whilst driving. I am guilty, that I hadn't even looked at them since I bought the car in 1989! It is possible to re-use the outer casings, so be careful not to damage it whilst removing them. Inside is standard 1/2 inch hose, I got my replacements from an HGV parts supplier, they still sell hose 'off-the reel' the guy sold me all I needed for £10.00
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Post by Warwick on Jan 16, 2019 13:19:02 GMT
I bought my car in Brisbane and drove it home over 4 days. A trip of about 1,800km. The second overnight stop was in Dubbo, about halfway home. We came out of the motel room in the morning (a Sunday) to find a pool of engine coolant under the car. A rear heater hose had burst, and the tap under the bonnet was seized in the open position. Fortunately, there was a Repco automotive parts shop just down the road a bit. I could see it from the motel, and it was open! I walked down and went through their collection of hoses and found one I could use as a bypass on the tap. Problem solved. It could have been disastrous if it had let go while driving, in the middle of nowhere.
EDIT - With the current heatwave sweeping across the continent (ours, not yours), I see that it's in the mid-40s today in Dubbo.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 17, 2019 12:57:44 GMT
Cheers Ray & Warick.
My first job is to try and get the rear heater valve un-seized and then fit a new thermostat. Test the whole thing and see how it is then. If its still not performing as it should I am biting the bullet and replacing the whole lot from JRW which stands at just under £1000.
I will know then its all done and will never need doing again hopefully.
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Post by JohnC on Jan 17, 2019 13:11:58 GMT
One of the first jobs that I carried out on my P5b Coupe when I got it some eight years ago was to try and improve what the Rover engineers had designed. Having been an apprentice with Rover car company I had a very good idea of some of the weak areas, the rear heater being one. The risk of coolant leakage, seized control valve convinced me that I should remove it totally. The task was very easy, I had two new stainless steel pipes manufactured to replace the suspect ally ones, then it was a case of just removing the rear matrix and pipe work. I have no regrets regards the removal and I am sure the front heater performance improved.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 18, 2019 10:10:08 GMT
Certainly food for thought there JohnC
Ive just ordered a new 82 degrees thermostat and gasket along with a new water hose set (v8 ) from JRW. Might as well change these too when I try to free off the heater pull valve.
Just little jobs a bit at a time and process of elimination.
UPDATE ON PROGRESS: Removed the heater valve. God it was clogged to hell with gunge. Now soaking in a tub of Plus gas fluid in the hope I can free it off over the next few days. I am open to all suggestions from anyone who has successfully done this please.
I also took a looksie at both my airfilters in the box. Both dirty and I will look at either new OEM pair or the K&N equivilant if I can get them for the inside of the box. I noticed on my airbox there is an oval hole in it covered with a piece of masking tape??? whats its for please???.
Judging by the state of the heater valve and the fact ive already ordered a complete new V8 hose set today I am going to bite the bullet and make another order with JRW for the SS heater pipes set and also new heater hoses pipes and outer hose pipe sleeve protector later and be done with it. I'll hold off for now on new matrix's and over sized core main radiator as its all a bit pricey and I need to watch the pennies. LOL
UPDATE 2: Had no joy at all with K&N filters so ive bought a pair of correct oval shaped crossland filters off ebay and will fit these instead. Cant be arsed anymore looking. LOL. I may send my old filter to K&N and see if they can make me a pair up which they did for my Bentley a few years ago.
Cheers
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Post by lagain on Jan 18, 2019 21:02:24 GMT
I also took a looksie at both my airfilters in the box. Both dirty and I will look at either new OEM pair or the K&N equivilant if I can get them for the inside of the box. I noticed on my airbox there is an oval hole in it covered with a piece of masking tape??? whats its for please???. Cheers There is a concave rubber gromett that fits in that hole to avoid the heater valve fouling the air cleaner. If you remove the thermostat housing be aware that the bolts may be siezed and if one shears off it is trouble. For me if the thermostat is working OK it falls into the category of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' Years ago I sheared off one of the bolts for the water pump. Fortunately it was one that could be replaced with a nut and bolt and I got away with it.
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Post by enigmas on Jan 19, 2019 1:22:11 GMT
It's heartening to read that you'll all partaking in a Preventative Maintenance Programme rather than the more traditional wait until it breaks reactive form of maintenance. 👍
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Post by Warwick on Jan 19, 2019 1:59:03 GMT
... If you remove the thermostat housing be aware that the bolts may be siezed and if one shears off it is trouble. For me if the thermostat is working OK it falls into the category of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Years ago I sheared off one of the bolts for the water pump. Fortunately it was one that could be replaced with a nut and bolt and I got away with it. A couple of years ago, a friend bought an interesting tool that I'd never seen before, or since. It's an induction heater. It looks a bit like a cross between a large electric soldering iron and an electric immersion heater. Those things with the coiled stainless steel heating element on the end of a handle, that you can stick in any container of water to boil it. I think it might have been 24Vdc and used a transformer. Anyway, you hold it so that the coil is over the broken end of the seize bolt or stud, and it very rapidly heats the bolt or stud, and only it. You can very quickly deliver a very hot shock to the seized thread to loosen it. Unlike the traditional method of using a flame, which also tends to heat everything else.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 19, 2019 11:19:25 GMT
Ok George, cheers for that info. It appears then my airbox rubber concave grommet has been lost in the past then and explains why the black masking tape is over the hole instead.
I always make sure I am very careful before I try to remove a bolt and always spray it with a free agent spray first and leave to soak. I think my P5B has had a thermostat in the past as well as a water pump too so it should come off ok albeit I do hear what your saying. My old Mini's used to be a right PITA too.
My thermostat seems to be working ok albeit sometimes has a mind of its own too and when driving the car it drops down below the midway marker on the gauge indicating cold running hence poor heat coming through the heater vents also. Colin Gould ( P5B/P6 expert locally ) told me the other day to change it for a new one and be done with it just as I have done with the temp sender sensor too.
Cheers
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Post by lagain on Jan 19, 2019 20:09:43 GMT
My thermostat seems to be working ok albeit sometimes has a mind of its own too and when driving the car it drops down below the midway marker on the gauge indicating cold running hence poor heat coming through the heater vents also. Colin Gould ( P5B/P6 expert locally ) told me the other day to change it for a new one and be done with it just as I have done with the temp sender sensor too. Cheers The gauges are not that accurate, although having said that mine seem to be ! My water temperature guage normal running position is only just off the blue, with a hot heater. If I get stuck in traffic in the summer the needle creeps up and at just over half way the Kenlowe fan kicks in. As I have a kenlowe and no mechanical fan I can monitor the radiator as the engine warms up. To start with it is cold and then the thermostat opens and running my hand over the radiator core I can feel the heat build. You said that the tap for the rear heater was a bit gungy, so it could be that there is gunge in the system, they are very prone to it and the one third anti-freeze recommended by Rover is not strong enough to prevent gunge. I would suggest something strong to flush it through and get rid of gunge and calcium deposits. The front grill is only held in by 4 bolts, it may pay to take it off so that you can check the radiator for cold spots. Years ago I bought a Stag that had been standing for many years and the bottom of the radiator was all gunged up, it had to be recored. I also, very foolishly, bought a 3 litre Austin. When changing the water I flushed it through and the radiator turned into a fountain
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 20, 2019 10:18:50 GMT
Cheers George. It appears my gauge runs the same as yours then albeit with a not so hot heater pretty much most of the time. My Kenlow also kicks in too so at least I have that saving grace.
Previous owner Bjorn was wise enough to have pretty much all of the better options fitted in his ownership time too albeit around the time he first bought the car from the first owner Mr Askew and that was 2001 time. It has been maintained regularly though and its all documented but I do plan over time to replace all the perishables which look as though they all need changing again now. It is nearly 20 years on so most of it will be due. I'll get there in the end once time and funds allow. LOL.
I will get the entire cooling system flushed twice I think and then add a 50/50 mix of antifreeze solution as we used to do on all the Army Rover V8 vehicles we used back in the day. My car is always garaged too so she is well protected from any elements.
Once I get all my new bits later this week I can proceed and crack on and as the weather gets better over the coming months I can have her outside when working on her as I don't like to get my " mancave floor " dirty. LOL
I plan to flush both the front and the rear heater matrix through too just to see if any crap comes out of them. It was ONLY the heater divert valve George that was gunged up and this was more than likely due to being shut for a good few years maybe. The fluid in the hoses was clear and also gunge free which is a good sign albeit the lot will be getting replaced. I'll drain down the radiator and remove that and flush it through too off the car I think.
The rear heater matrix is easy to flush/blow through but I would like to know the best method ( without removing it ) on how to flush/blow through the front heater matrix as I prefer to NOT disturb any of the linkages att to it.
Regards,
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Post by lagain on Jan 20, 2019 20:21:52 GMT
I would imagine the best way to flush through the front heater matrix would be to put the lever inside the car on hot, disconnect the pipes under the bonnet and put the hosepipe on it
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 21, 2019 18:47:40 GMT
Indeed George, my setting levers were as you suggested. I have just had Joanne sit in the car too and operate both heater control levers in turn for me as I observed under bonnet and all there positions and linkages work perfectly so nothing amiss there thank god. I did try and connect up some old hosepipe to the outlets today but it would not slide over in order I could flush with water so I just used my airline instead and lots of air was coming out of both inlet/outlet tubes in both directions so I am assuming the matrix is ok.
I will only know for sure once ive fitted all my new pipework and then flush out the cooling system and put a fresh 50/50 mix in the system which i'll be doing over the coming days along with fitting a brand new thermostat on advice of Colin Gould for good measure.
UPDATE: On carrying out the new thermostat installation today I found I actually had NO thermostat in there which might explain a few things and why my heater is not so good. I have one in there now albeit I have to say it was a right B****r to put back togeather along with the fitting and trimming down of the new hose set from JRW. My back is killing me now after all that bending over the car. Still got the rest of the pipes to come yet for the rear heater set up so cannot really do much until they do.
I flushed the main radiator out in situ and it was all clean that came out of it which was good albeit I was puzzled to see an additional 2 small fine pipe unions on the very bottom of the radiator below the bottom hose??? what are they for please and where do they go??? I am NOT disturbing them any how. I'll crack on tomorrow and see how much more I can do/flush/clean out so am unable to run the car up until its all fitted and checked.
Once all is done and everything is ok I think I am going to have the Evans waterless coolant added and be done with it.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 23, 2019 19:37:30 GMT
Flushed out both front and rear heater matrix today with water hose and air line. Not that much dirt in either but there was some. Flushed them both 3 times each and 3 times airline.
Good job ive ordered new rear heater pipe set too as when I took one off today the alloy pipe just crumbled to bits so both shot. JRW have dispatched them today and should have them tomorrow. A wise choice I think ive made and at least now i'll know its all new and free flowing with coolant.
Its all good fun
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 24, 2019 11:13:31 GMT
Update regarding Evans waterless coolant.
I have been in talks with the above company regarding their product and they have advised me that their Power Cool 180 product is best suited to the P5B's alloy engine. It has all the same inhibitor qualities as their Classic Cool 180 product but much better suited to our cars engines. There is no need to remove the thermostat either and or modify any major cooling system componants.
I think I may get it put in once im all up and running and ok with all my new parts and hoses, I have a local classic car specialist 4 miles away near Cirencester area who has been an agent for Evan's products now for a long time and they install it in their Aston Martins and Jenson's and other classics they deal with for customers including those Red Fiat sports cars. LOL.
Just waiting for my second JRW order to arrive and then I can crack on.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 24, 2019 19:34:40 GMT
Another productive afternoon albeit slightly frustrating too fitting all my new heater pipes. Still not finished as light was failing but I will resume tomorrow and fingers crossed be all plumbed up ready to recharge the system with fresh antifreeze mix, run up and check for any leaks.
The new under car rear heater hoses came as a one piece pipe which was great and I also bought the new outer protective sleeve too which JRW's kindly inserted the hose inside it for me. Aaron was helpful on the phone from JRW today as I was getting frustrated over a couple of things but I have written to Mr John Wadham with a couple of suggestions which I am hoping he will look at and consider for future customers and ease of task.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 25, 2019 18:15:22 GMT
Hi guys, well ive managed to install everything today and prime the system with fresh antifreeze and success!!!! I now have a really nice and warm front and rear heater in my P5B.
I am so happy and it was money well worth spending to renew it all. The old original pipework was shot to bits over the years and evident lack of use of the rear heater due to the divert valve being seized but all is well now.
I will put it all back togeather tomorrow and take her for a short run so the system is under full pressure and do a final check on return. If all is fine then I think I will have the Evan's waterless coolant installed.
I also fitted my 2 new rear exhaust tail ends I had made up special with rolled back tips all mirror polished and they just sleeved over the rear exit pipes. My rear silencer is NOT an original box albeit is stainless steel but the new end tails look lovely.
On to the next project now.LOL
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tonys
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 419
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Post by tonys on Jan 25, 2019 20:01:53 GMT
Brendan
Keep up the reports, interesting following the progress; good result re the heater and thermostat
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Post by projectrover on Jan 25, 2019 20:31:53 GMT
Driven it as usual, it's my daily drive and looked at the front bumper. And realised it is serious need of rechroming. So that will be coming off.
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Post by projectrover on Jan 25, 2019 20:34:18 GMT
Driven it as usual, it's my daily drive and looked at the front bumper. And realised it is serious need of rechroming. So that will be coming off.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jan 26, 2019 8:22:00 GMT
Cheers Tony
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Post by Jens Munk on Jan 26, 2019 8:27:02 GMT
Me too!
Well, not driving it right now due to snow, salt and the minor detail that the engine is sitting on a stand waiting to be assembled, but the need for a front bumper re-chrome.
The bumper was painted by a previous owner, and removing this has revealed that the over-riders have been repaired and covered in a thick layer of bondo. At the moment I am leaning towards new chrome over-riders from Wadhams and then having the three bumper pieces re-chromed.
The rear bumper is close to perfect.
Driven it as usual, it's my daily drive and looked at the front bumper. And realised it is serious need of rechroming. So that will be coming off.
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