|
Post by harvey on Feb 12, 2010 17:52:47 GMT
You don't do the second and third drains immediately, you do it after a run which is long enough to get all of the fluids mixed in together. So you could do the first drain and refill one weekend, use the car for a week or so, then do the second one, and repeat for the third. Sorry if I didn't make it clear that you have to use the car inbetween drains to mix all the fluid together.
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 12, 2010 19:03:42 GMT
Let it drain overnight - a lot more will come out especially if the torque converter one-way vale is not 100%. It cannot however drop below just under halfway up the converter. Another BW35 cost cutting measure as the DG box did have converter drain plugs
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2010 20:42:38 GMT
Finally understood, thanks all.
|
|
|
Post by enigmas on Feb 13, 2010 2:16:51 GMT
That stuff is an interesting read Harvey but also counter to a lot of technical technical stuff posted on this board that I've read.
Most of the negative comments regarding the use of Dexron in 'English' BW35s seem to state that this type of ATF causes slip of the bands and clutches in these boxes due to the friction modifiers in the chemistry of the ATF.
This may/could be the case with older English and European version BW35 offerings.
It certainly isn't the case with the OZ boxes fitted behind cars made for Australian conditions. Ford, Valiant/Chrysler and the P76 Leyland were designed for the unique climate and distances here...which can be and are very harsh.
My Rover, used 5 days a week (approx 300 kms each week) for the last 15 years does not have any gearbox issues running on Dexron (most recent spec) but as stated earlier these are Aussie Spec gearboxes with friction materials designed for our harsh conditions.
The OZ spec BW35/40 in my P5 doesn't leak, slip, sqwark or dissolve seals. These OZ spec gearboxes saw constant upgrade almost to the 1990's with the last development BW50 gearboxes behind very torquey 3.9 litre Ford EFI engines.
IMHO I'd stick with Harvey's suggestions if you've got an old English or European Spec BW35 behind something.
|
|
|
Post by Warwick on Feb 14, 2010 23:20:27 GMT
I can't think how you'd identify the friction material and its suitability for any particlar type of fluid in a used box just by looking at the worn friction plates, but once you get to the stage that the box is in pieces I would assume it's going to be rebuilt anyway so you can then choose your fluid type Thanks Harvey, I was thinking more in terms of what could be seen with the oil pan removed and the box still in the car. I guessed that the answer would be that it isn't possible to identify the material, but since this thread has covered just about everything we need to know about fluid types and when to use them, I thought someone was bound to ask that question sooner or later, so it might as well be me. For me down here; I intend to do Vince's internals upgrade when the time comes, using Ford Falcon BW40 parts. It's the logical thing to do. Meanwhile I will stick to the original ATF spec fluid as the more I learn about the history of my car, the more it seems likely to have only covered 128,000 miles and to have spent a fair bit of its life sitting idle. So it's most likely the original, untouched box. Thanks for the link to the Aussie Frogs site Harvey. I've been a member there for 6 years and I missed that thread.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 15:17:12 GMT
Is Good "mobil ATF 220" ??
|
|
|
Post by glennr on Feb 25, 2010 16:28:16 GMT
Mobil ATF 220 is recommended for some automatic and manual transmissions in passenger cars and light trucks specifying Dexron IID level performance as well as the related power steering systems. It is also suitable for use in some special hydraulic systems in farm equipment and other installations having similar fluid requirements. If it contains Dexron I would not use it. However, I am not an expert and I am sure someone will post a more definate answer.
|
|
|
Post by harvey on Feb 25, 2010 17:14:45 GMT
Use fluid that meets Ford specification M2C-33G which is the recommended fluid for the BW35/65/66 and the Ford boxes of the time. (C3 up to 1980 IIRC)
Don't use any of the Dexron type fluids.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 17:29:41 GMT
And is Good Castrol TQ??
how many kilometers do?
Thank
Gianmarco
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 25, 2010 19:21:41 GMT
Use fluid that meets Ford specification M2C-33G which is the recommended fluid for the BW35/65/66 and the Ford boxes of the time. (C3 up to 1980 IIRC) Don't use any of the Dexron type fluids. Gianmarco as our gearbox advisor harvey says Ford specification M2C-33G If you are unsure of the specifications have a web search and do a cross reference for your country, don't just put any oil in the gearbox unless it is a rebuild then the gearbox builder should advise on what to put in it
|
|
|
Post by harvey on Feb 25, 2010 19:27:36 GMT
don't just put any oil in the gearbox unless it is a rebuild then the gearbox builder should advise on what to put in it The trouble with that is that a lot of people who should know better because they've rebuilt the box, say that using Dexron is OK. I think that it's just a cynical ploy to get the box to fail again just after the warrenty has expired........... I'll stick with my original recommendation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 19:46:06 GMT
'm sorry, I did not want to give birth to the discussions about it. I do not speak English well I am Italian and in Italy we have a few Rover P5B. I have only seen this important debate today and I noticed that fluids are not recommended for Dexron Borg Waner 35, the problem is that all the fluids that I found are 2 Dexron or Dexron 3. I found the Mobil ATF 220 (Dexron 2), the Castrol TQ (Dexron 3) and others but all Dexron. So how do I do?
How many km do with the fluid back in return?
Thanks for your time
Gianmarco
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 19:54:10 GMT
this is my Rover P5b 1968 Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 25, 2010 19:58:25 GMT
No that has Dexron 3 in it - cannot see that Castrol do one
|
|
|
Post by glennr on Feb 25, 2010 21:58:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by enigmas on Feb 26, 2010 1:45:58 GMT
Gianmarco. I imagine that your vehicle is an original English P5B given it's location? But God only really knows unless you have a full service history. This discussion goes on Ad Nauseum. If you're nervous about the type of oil to use and many are, the original spec oil can be shipped to you with a little inconvenience from several countries. I purchase stuff from overseas all the time. Nothing will dissolve in your gearbox if you make a mistake but you may have to flush it. This is not rocket science so don't get too anxious.
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 26, 2010 8:19:03 GMT
don't just put any oil in the gearbox unless it is a rebuild then the gearbox builder should advise on what to put in it The trouble with that is that a lot of people who should know better because they've rebuilt the box, say that using Dexron is OK. I think that it's just a cynical ploy to get the box to fail again just after the warranty has expired........... I'll stick with my original recommendation. I agree harvey but just lets say it's a reputable builder and the box fails within it's warranty and most good gearbox builders give either a mileage or time warranty and when opened it is found to have the incorrect oil!!
|
|
|
Post by David on Feb 26, 2010 9:11:03 GMT
I have heard good things regarding 'Megaflushing' the gearbox. We have a local specialist, though i am sure the service is nationwide. www.grgb.co.uk/megaflush.aspPerhaps worth considering?
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Feb 26, 2010 10:18:12 GMT
I have heard good things regarding 'Megaflushing' the gearbox. We have a local specialist, though i am sure the service is nationwide. www.grgb.co.uk/megaflush.aspPerhaps worth considering? Never heard of Mega flushing before,they probably hook up a low pressure airline and blow everything through....dunno? Big Kev.
|
|
|
Post by David on Feb 26, 2010 10:35:55 GMT
Apparently they do use a pressurised system to pump the fluid through the entire gearbox. It is surprising what muck gets cleared and the gearbox is apparently much smoother.
Cost I understand is around £100
|
|
|
Post by norvin on Feb 26, 2010 10:47:17 GMT
Would it harm any seals in the box as ours are getting on a bit, mine clonks in reverse years ago they used to say when an autobox did that it was shot.
|
|
|
Post by enigmas on Feb 26, 2010 12:10:09 GMT
Norvin, I'd be wary on an old box. If it's still working leave it alone but it won't last forever and perhaps you should be accessing that jam jar full of coins for a proper rebuild. You might be surprised how many of the plain bushes in your box are worn to the extreme allowing 'stuff' to move in an eccentric fashion. Interpretation: Added expense if you leave it too long and something breaks internally. The front pump bush is often well past its prime. Worn bands may be scoring the clutch drums. Torringtons may be ready to disintegrate. Why wait you'll just be adding to the repair bill.
|
|
|
Post by harvey on Feb 26, 2010 14:11:03 GMT
Another problem with renewing the fluid on an old (for the want of a better word) box that hasn't ever had a fluid change, is that the old fluid will contain lots of floating particles of friction material suspended in it, which when removed often bring hidden problems to notice, as those little particles are often just enough to give the little extra grip on the clutches to stop slip.
Regular fluid changes from new, or after a rebuild, are a good idea, flushing out an old box and refilling with new fluid, not so good IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by norvin on Feb 27, 2010 15:30:31 GMT
Thanks a rebuild is worth thinking about, but not cheap to do, then you need to get the box out, the older you get the less you feel like doing that sort of work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2010 16:56:41 GMT
I've now done the changes of fluid as previously suggested and on each change 3.2 litres of ATF came out of the tray so most of the total capacity (about 8 litres ) is of the correct spec. I only replaced about 3.5 litres on my last change in 2002 so that will do me for now.
|
|