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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2010 17:11:34 GMT
Apologise for the banality of this question, but I've just run the car which has been laid up over the summer after an accident, apparently 'R' on the gear selector means different things to different people, checked the transmission fluid the dipstick was covered in fluid, then ran the engine no fluid on stick, went through gears again no fluid on stick. there was a small leak a few weeks ago about a cup full, the box was rebuilt about 3 years ago and has been fine. Does this indicate I need a top up.
thanks for reading
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Sept 5, 2010 18:23:32 GMT
What else can R mean except reverse - not come across anything different on autos or manuals that do not? Oil level must be checked wengine running or at least immediately after switching-off - top up with at least 1/2 litre then check when hot and top again if necessary. Do Not drive the car till its done. A cup full is not a small leak on auto box its the difference between full and TOP Up or TOP up and ruined box. Also find leak and rectify
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2010 19:08:19 GMT
What else can R mean except reverse - not come across anything different on autos or manuals that do not? This has also always been my position as well. as in do not stick it in reverse then look all shocked when it shoots backwards through a big shed thanks phil will attend to the fluid before thinking about moving it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2010 17:18:41 GMT
Again this may be a stupid question but I've topped up the box with apr 3/4 of a litre, ran till hot and checked it, looking at the hi low gradings on the dip stick, the bottom is covered in fluid ending in a distinct well define line at the low marker line, but there's a thin coating of fluid right to the top, should I top up more?
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Post by spivomatic on Sept 25, 2010 18:14:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 21:50:36 GMT
sorry for late reply, thank you for that
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Jan 3, 2013 19:09:58 GMT
I thought I would add to this post to save starting another one off. Been a bit bored over the break so i thought i would take a look at an old BW35 which came with a job lot of spares I bought six years ago. The seller said box worked fine,which given that I only paid £50.00 for a host of spares sat ok with me, so I kept it as a spare. Well having read the workshop manual a good few times, I bit the bullet and dived in for a good look inside it. The one problem i found was that one of the bolts holding the rear servo in place was well loose, which put more pressure on the remaining bolt, which in turn bent the remaining bolt to an extent that it was difficult to remove. The rear brake band was totally worn out, so much so that it has worn other components to a point of it being unserviceable, I dont know if the loose bolt had anything to do with the brake band wear, but as others have commented on these boxes, if you leave it too long before repair or fault finding the following pictures show some of the results.
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Post by harvey on Jan 3, 2013 19:17:09 GMT
Check the casing around the rear servo mounting bolt holes as when they're loose the movement cracks the casing.
Everybody says "the box worked fine" when they're selling it to you, but most of the time they wouldn't know whether it was or it wasn't even after driving it.
The problem with the rear band wearing is that when it does score the drum it runs on, that's the gearset.
If you decide to get really brave and rebuild it, I have all the hard parts you need.
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Jan 3, 2013 19:23:50 GMT
Thanks Harvey, as everything it depends on the cost. The gearset has to be replaced,it is well scored, as are a few other items, and i have not looked at the frictions and steels yet. I will strip it totally and look at what it needs, and send you a shopping list, if that is ok.
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Post by harvey on Jan 3, 2013 19:28:55 GMT
I've just viewed your slideshow and bearing in mind what you were told when you bought it about it all being OK that just proves my point about the pitfalls of buying secondhand boxes. (Not that you bought it to use. I'ts a real mismatch of parts, with lots of problems, as you've found.
Not only could I sell you all the parts to rebuild it, which I doubt is going to happen, but there are things in there that I would buy if you have no further use for them.
They are interesting to dismantle aren't they?
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Post by harvey on Jan 3, 2013 19:30:58 GMT
I will strip it totally and look at what it needs, and send you a shopping list, if that is ok. Sure, no problem. I can be pretty certain I would have everything you would need, and all the clutches and bands are still available new.
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Post by fortnum1977 on Aug 7, 2013 12:03:44 GMT
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 7, 2013 12:14:05 GMT
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 7, 2013 16:27:42 GMT
It might go away but it sounds bad - remember that draining the box still leaves a lot of fluid in the converter. Only half may eventually drain out if left a day or two.
The only way short of removal is repeated draining/running/refilling for which you will need at least 10-15 litres of the correct ATF. Comma is good but only if the box has not been rebuilt recently - then it could be anything.
Nothing to loose by trying - were symptoms present before the last change - why was it done?
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Post by fortnum1977 on Aug 13, 2013 9:09:15 GMT
I filled it up with comma and the slipping has entirely gone, which is good. Only thing that remains is a strange graunching noise that comes from the diff or back end of prop shaft. ??
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Post by fortnum1977 on Aug 13, 2013 16:15:55 GMT
Hi, and how do you drain the oil from the box and how much approx do you need to put in? thanks
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Post by harvey on Aug 13, 2013 16:32:30 GMT
Hi, and how do you drain the oil from the box and how much approx do you need to put in? thanks There's a drain plug in the sump, but as it's not possible to drain the converter you'll never get all the fluid out. If you want to do a fluid change you'll have to do about 4 drain refills to be fairly sure you've got all the old fluid out. The best way is to set the level correctly after the first drain refill, and then just put the same amount back in as comes out on the subsequent drain/refills. At a guess I'd say that you'd only get half the full capacity out on each drain if you were lucky, so if you got 10 litres of fluid that should see you well on your way to 3 maybe 4 drains. Total capacity is 8 litres.
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Aug 13, 2013 19:53:50 GMT
I filled it up with comma and the slipping has entirely gone, which is good. Only thing that remains is a strange graunching noise that comes from the diff or back end of prop shaft. ?? That noise could well be the propshaft centre bearing, before I investigated my rumble from the back end, I had visions of a worn diff, but it was the prop bearing.
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Post by achandler on Mar 18, 2014 1:14:25 GMT
I read the exchanges on this thread with very great interest, as my local garage thought it was doing the right thing by refilling with a Dexron 11D fluid after replacing the sump gasket. The car immediately suffered from autogear slip on its way home. We now have to drain and refill (several times) with the correct fluid. That is the interesting problem as living out here in New Zealand, virtually every fluid obtainable "off the shelf" is a Dexron type. After 4 days of phone calls, and searching the web the only fluid I can source is Valvoline Type F, or by special order, Penrite ATF-33. So for Australasian members, it might be good to check what fluids are available locally should you need it. The garage is going to do the job free of charge, but plan to use a Wynns flushing liquid in a pressurised machine specifically designed to remove all the old fluid and replace it with new. It will be interesting to see whether they can get all the old oil out. Has anyone had any experience of using this type of machine on a BW35 gearbox?
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Post by Warwick on Mar 18, 2014 3:44:18 GMT
Have a chat to Vince ( roverp5.proboards.com/user/357 ) about changing the internals of the box to those of a later BW40 from a Ford Falcon, then you can use modern fluids.
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Post by enigmas on Mar 18, 2014 10:14:50 GMT
I think you've just been unlucky achandler! Perhaps your garage mechanic is young and doesn't have the depth of knowledge that a mechanic who worked on these gearboxes when they were first available on a multitude of marques world wide would have. Unfortunately you need to be at least 60 plus! Generally, if it's an early BW35 and it has the narrow rigid circular 'bands' then use the early spec fluid not any Dexron version. Later versions of this gearbox (in OZ) were fitted to Ford Falcons, Valiants, Chryslers and the Leyland P76 and had wider 'flex' bands and drums. The Aussie version gear trains weren't interchangeable with the UK versions, but the whole gear assembly will fit into these cases. These BW35s behind big 6s (4.1 litre & 245ci) and 289/276 V8s used Dexron fluid as specified in their WSMs. Later versions had more responsive valve bodies and were designated BW40 and were behind 3.9 EFI 6s. These were upgraded in their last versions to a BW51. This had a slightly stronger (thicker) gear train but the case hardening apparently wasn't as good as the BW40. The one way sprag in a 51 has more elements and can be fitted as an upgrade into any BW35 or BW40. Take a look at this link, about half way down the page is an uprated version of the BW35 fitted to an extensively modified P76 The MotivatorFlushing the gearboxThis is how I do it. Warm the gearbox...go for a drive. Choose a safe work area. Shut the car down and disconnect the fluid line that pumps ATF to the radiator trans cooler or air trans cooler. Direct this line into a large container. Start the car...leave it in PARK whilst idling. Watch the fluid being expelled (or have an assistant do this) As soon as the fluid flow falters switch off. Measure the fluid expelled and add the same quantity of fresh ATF. This method may not be as thorough as a flushing machine but works for me. You can add a litre or 2 of fresh fluid before the old fluid is fully expelled.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 18, 2014 11:05:34 GMT
Your link was slightly incorrect vince so I corrected it I hope you don't mind
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Post by enigmas on Mar 18, 2014 11:45:05 GMT
I'd never have known John!
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Post by achandler on Mar 19, 2014 19:46:50 GMT
Thanks "Trueviking", all very helpful and interesting. Actually my local garage mechanic is really "quite mature", certainly not a youngster. The frightening thing is that he checked with two local auto transmission specialists, both claimed that Dexron 11D would be fine in the BW35. He is gutted about what has happened, and I have had no battle with him regarding changing to a Type F fluid, which is actually incredibly hard to find here in the South Island of New Zealand. The only companies that I can find that import and sell it locally, are Pennzoil, Penrite and Valvoline. Only Valvoline is available off the shelf, both the others are on special order only. It occurs to me that it is possible a number of owners may be topping up their gearboxes with a Dexron 11 fluid, but so little is actually being added to the general mix that its effect is not noticeable, at first. Possible after-effects are then put down to old age and increasing wear. It is only when you have to do something like I did, and have a new gasket fitted and have to dump a load of the existing fluid, that this problem arises.
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Post by gingerbeer62 on Feb 18, 2015 23:28:32 GMT
I think you've just been unlucky achandler! Perhaps your garage mechanic is young and doesn't have the depth of knowledge that a mechanic who worked on these gearboxes when they were first available on a multitude of marques world wide would have. Unfortunately you need to be at least 60 plus! Generally, if it's an early BW35 and it has the narrow rigid circular 'bands' then use the early spec fluid not any Dexron version. Later versions of this gearbox (in OZ) were fitted to Ford Falcons, Valiants, Chryslers and the Leyland P76 and had wider 'flex' bands and drums. The Aussie version gear trains weren't interchangeable with the UK versions, but the whole gear assembly will fit into these cases. These BW35s behind big 6s (4.1 litre & 245ci) and 289/276 V8s used Dexron fluid as specified in their WSMs. Later versions had more responsive valve bodies and were designated BW40 and were behind 3.9 EFI 6s. These were upgraded in their last versions to a BW51. This had a slightly stronger (thicker) gear train but the case hardening apparently wasn't as good as the BW40. The one way sprag in a 51 has more elements and can be fitted as an upgrade into any BW35 or BW40. Take a look at this link, about half way down the page is an uprated version of the BW35 fitted to an extensively modified P76 The MotivatorFlushing the gearboxThis is how I do it. Warm the gearbox...go for a drive. Choose a safe work area. Shut the car down and disconnect the fluid line that pumps ATF to the radiator trans cooler or air trans cooler. Direct this line into a large container. Start the car...leave it in PARK whilst idling. Watch the fluid being expelled (or have an assistant do this) As soon as the fluid flow falters switch off. Measure the fluid expelled and add the same quantity of fresh ATF. This method may not be as thorough as a flushing machine but works for me. You can add a litre or 2 of fresh fluid before the old fluid is fully expelled. Love the draining idea. Thanks to all for all the info on types of oils, very useful. It seems that my box was done about 10 years ago and I wonder if anyone has experienced the symptoms I have. Firstly, is the filter looking thing in one of the pictures, I assume it is a cleanable filter? When my car is driven to the left, it momentarily looses nearly all of it's drive. More noticeable when cold. Am I right in thinking it a part blocked filter ? I think the fluid level is ok but I will check again tomorrow. Is the level checked with the unit warm and in park as per usual in my other car. A Ford Cosworth Scorpio, someone has to like them !! Cheers Colin
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