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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 10:42:55 GMT
Just choke and no throttle?
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Post by David on May 21, 2010 11:49:35 GMT
I disconnected the choke Peter as one of the potential causes of the stalling, but it had no effect. Even when the engine is warm I need to constantly use the throttel to ensure it does not stall - not ideal with an automatic.
So frustrating as it was running and starting fine.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 21, 2010 16:38:53 GMT
Is dizzy baseplate earthing properly - it should idle in drive at 600 without stalling very soon after startup
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Post by David on May 21, 2010 17:10:49 GMT
Ah thanks Phil I will check. Took the carb needles out again and cleaned the chambers down, using Redex. Also replaced the oil with a lighter one. Also took off the fuel feed and ran some neat Redex back down to the fuel filter and pump. The carbs on tehre had been sat for a while so I figure it will do more good than harm using Redex. It started first time and after a bit of tickover adjustment settled down. I will check the dizzy earth, but I have a question? How These old Rovers certainly keep you on your toes.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 21, 2010 18:39:41 GMT
The dizzy base plate screws to alloy dizzy body - corrosion in threads causes a high resistance yet they look fine.
Remove clean smear with graphite grease and replace - no harm doing it and will last another 40 years.
Redex is a good stuff too and worth trying
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Post by David on May 25, 2010 9:37:45 GMT
All working fine again - not sure what the problem was but dribbling some Redex back into the feed pipe from the fuel filter did no harm.
Cheers Phil
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Post by David on Jun 4, 2010 13:54:54 GMT
Aargh, took the car to the local garage for some fuel but didn't get there. It is cutting out again.
Car stalls at traffic light and it will not start, though engine turns over. I tried a trick that worked last time: remove air filter and carb arms and lift both pistons. Car starts. It will not however remain running, so you guessed it, it stalled again. Got it running again and made a hasty retreat home.
I don't profess to be any good at this mechanical millarky so does anyone know a good garage (one that understands old cars and Rover V8s in the Brisol area) who can give it a thorough checking over and get it running as sweet as it was before it went off to the 'professional' restorer?
From a well and truly fed up with my car owner.
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Post by Colin McA on Jun 4, 2010 14:56:35 GMT
Something similar happened to me recently. The choke was stuck on the LH carb, You previously disconnected the choke but did you check the jet was fully home. The jet should also operate smoothly without any sticking
If the carbs have been rebuilt the micture could be too rich. If you look insdie the carb by removing the dashpot you can see the position of the jet. IIRC it should be in line with the bridge.
Could also be the fuel level in the bowl. Have you checked that the valve is closing at the right place.
When I rebuilt mine I used a bowl from a 2000 p6 which sat lower than the v8 and was feeding extra fuel in to the manifold result was it didnt run well. the connecting pipe between the carbs should be sitting just off the maifold if the bowls are correct.
Colin
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 4, 2010 19:03:01 GMT
Do not despair - the points mentioned by Colin above are well worth checking - the art of balancing twin carbs is disappearing fast but once set they will stop like that for a long time. The jets should start approx level with the bidge and both should be about the same setting - fine tuning of the mixture is however essential with the standard SU lift pin method. Check that dashpots have oil in them and rates of drop are the same.
Ignition and dwell have to be spot on for smooth idling as well
Persevere and use it more often as some problems do improve
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Post by David on Jun 5, 2010 9:36:30 GMT
Thanks again chaps. The car now starts fine, even after it has been running for a while. Everything points to the carbs being the problem - the jets sits about1/8 inch below the bridge on both sides, so maybe that could be the problem and both pistons drop but not at the same rate - having compared the springs one is slightly longer. Is it worth setting the jets back level to the bridge and then fine tuning from there? Other than that they are fine! I really want to enjoy the car Phil but at this point every journey is a problem. I am beginning to think maybe I should sell her. How much does set of reconditioned carbs cost?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2010 10:37:27 GMT
You could always give Burlens a ring to discuss your options.They are highly regarded in their field. www.burlen.co.uk/As Phil said, once your carbs are properly set up they will give no problems for years. I rebuilt mine years ago using kits from Burlen. My dear old late Dad then rigged up a system using water gauge tubes attached to the inlets with a relief valve to stop water entering the carbs. We then balanced the carbs watching the water level in the tubes until both sides were the same. Very Heath Robinson but it worked! Some experienced mechanics just listen to the sound of the air being sucked in until the hiss is the same each side. That's a skill only gained after a lot of experience and probably a dying art My carbs were sorted, I had Lumenition fitted and I replaced the AED with a choke conversion kit same as the one on EBAY. I've also got a mechanical petrol pump fitted as re-manufactured by the club. As a result of all this, the car runs perfectly and starts in all conditions. At each MOT, I have the emissions checked, just for interest and they are well within modern requirements. It's a simple engine with simple needs. It's just a question of sorting out one area thoroughly then moving on to the next one and sorting that.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 5, 2010 11:05:54 GMT
Do not stop you so near
You might be shocked at the price - yours may only need minor recon anyway. Whichever you do they still have to be set up. it does not take long if you know what you are doing and the WSM gives adequate instructions
The jets should be virtually level perhaps a 1/64th" inch below max! It is a wonder it ran at all though starting will be easy!
The damper springs should be same length too
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Post by enigmas on Jun 5, 2010 11:47:53 GMT
Admin, the V8 is a mechanically simple vehicle and the carbs do not require Einstein to sort them out. I imagine there must be someone on the board in your neck of the woods that can do this for you. If you're not mechanically inclined it's probably better to not tool about with the settings as you'll only get frustrated. I'd look for an MG Specialist and take it there...some things aren't worth the frustration...and then you won't loose your enjoyment of the vehicle. PS. I could buy a new car and my wife does use a modern vehicle but they don't do much for me (too much like a modern fridge or washing machine) but then I do enjoy the quirkiness of my old beast...which is with a modicum of TLC utterly reliable. Even so, just this evening I removed and rebuilt the DS door mechanism...something I really needed to do 15 years ago when it was 29 years old. I can't really complain. Hey, it can even withstand a house fire and the evidence of that fire is still there (burnt front DS guard and leading edge of the bonnet) ~ Vince
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Post by Colin McA on Jun 5, 2010 12:33:07 GMT
do you live near any other p5 owner who is mechanically minded?
The best thing to do is buy a gunson carb balancer and colourtune. To set the carbs you only need to adjust the jet height and balance the aire drwan by both carbs. It is much simpler than it sounds. The colour tune allows you to see how rich the mixture is.
As a quick check you can adjust the jets back up to the bridge or just below and try running it. lifting the piston to check the richness.
The beauty of the rover is that most things are simple to fix it is somtimes figuring out what the problem is though.
I think you would be aorund £200 to have the carbs overhauled but then you would still need to set them up yourself so best to try and set them up first and save the pennies.
Colin
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Post by Colin McA on Jun 5, 2010 12:50:25 GMT
I just read this thread back.
The piston not dropping at the same rate is not good. With the damper removed, lift the piston using the pin on the carb body. you should get a nice clear "clunk" as it hits the bridge. if it doesn't then that needs looked at. Either the jet is not centred or the needle may be bent, either way it will not run well.
You also need to check that the floats are operating and shutting the fuel off at the correct level. If the level in the bowl is higher than then jet it dribbles more fuel into the carb so you will always run rich.
I don't think you need a full rebuild kit although it is always worth doing. I would atleast consider new jets and needles from burlen. The needle valve in the float lid may have been stuck with gummed up petrol. it is quite easy to check the valve. remove the lid and blow in, in the float is lifted the valve should shut and you wont be able to blow through. if it doesnt just strip it down and clean it.
Colin
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Post by David on Jun 5, 2010 13:58:06 GMT
What a helpful bunch you all are. I reset the jets to flush with the bridge and she ran. Using the lift pin I then adjusted the mixture until the revs increased slightly when the pin was lifted. Using a tachometer I then decided to set the rpm but the engine cut out. I did eventually start but only after a good few turns of the starter motor - the engine slowly sprung to life as the starter turns it over. I adjusted the idle and she cut out again - she will not start. Back to square one
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 5, 2010 14:17:28 GMT
Running too weak?
Try dropping the jets both equally 1 full turn ie 6 flats of the nut
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Post by Colin McA on Jun 5, 2010 15:04:23 GMT
Did you do it with the engine at running temperature?
You will need a bit of choke til the engine is warm then tweak the mixture.
Colin
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Post by David on Jun 5, 2010 18:28:32 GMT
Its not been a good day. After spending the morning resetting the jets I decided enough is enough and went and bought a colortune. Got the engine warm, plugged it in to number 5 cylinder and he presto I can see the spark - white/blueish. Attempt to adjust for blue and the engine cuts out and will not start again. Clean and put original spark plug (very sooty) back in and again the engine will not start. At this moment in time I would happily, trade it in for anything I can drive. It took 13 years at a 'professional garage' near Newent in Gloucestershire, who promised so much and delivered so little and a further year of teething problems, and it still isn't running. I hate my Rover!
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 5, 2010 20:16:20 GMT
I'll give you a Tenner for it!
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Post by enigmas on Jun 6, 2010 0:16:24 GMT
Admin....there's probably someone near you who can sort this relatively easily...even if the carbs are not perfect.
As an aside if one of the carb pistons is not dropping with a clunk...most likely the jet is not centred and it is sticking on that unit. To get the airflow of each carb balanced the linkage that connects both together needs to be disconnected otherwise each butterfly cannot be accurately adjusted for airflow. Once this is done the linkage is fitted to suit. If the plugs are sooty it is running rich.
To start you need both jets level. Ensure both needles are also level with the base of each vacuum piston. Whatever the mixture adjustment is make both the exactly same at fully lean. (You can richen it for starting...cold engine... by using the choke). Enrichen the mixture by 2 turns (exactly on each carb) as a starting point.
* I'd still put out an SOS for a knowledgeable club member within range who can work with you as you seem to want to know how this is done.
Go and have a cup of tea!
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Post by David on Jun 6, 2010 8:30:00 GMT
After a nights sleep I tackled it again with a fresh mind. Went through all that was suggested. Sticking piston - the drivers side piston though lifting did have a resistance when I manually lifted it. I have s spare piston and jet so that has been tried and it lifts and drops with a satisfying clunk - like the other side. Checked both floats and they sit within tolerance - did note they were not as shown in the workshop manual as these do not have the metal fixing plate to the pin, they are plastic fixed directly to the pin. At this point I did spot there was no petrol in the bowl So turned over the engine and the cloth was dry. Removed the filter (thought it may have been blocked) but this was clean and tried again - still no fuel. So I guess it is a bit difficult to balance when the fuel isn't there. Now searching for what I need to do for fuel pumps. PS. Still out of love with the Rover
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 6, 2010 15:21:40 GMT
No need to Search for pumps - there are 2 threads today!!
However are you suggesting one bowl was empty - and one full as this means the needle valve is stuck/blocked as the one pump feeds both both bowls at the same time.
Old Viaton tipped valves can stick as unleaded petrol dissolves them - ealy ones had plain brass but these wear quickly and lead to flooding especially if the pump has full power which few mechanical ones will have now but a new electric one will cause problems. Worn mechanical pumps also cause vapor lock at the drop of a hat
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Post by David on Jun 7, 2010 8:38:30 GMT
I checked Phil and both bowls were empty. Phil, can you please clarify? '... but a new electric one will cause problems.' I took the fuel pump off and found evidence of wear on the arm and perhaps more surprising some cracking Gave David Green a call and he has one on the shelf with a good suction, so hopefully its on its way to me as I type. Many moons ago when I first had the car it was fitted with a fuel filter/regulator. Its is a rather splendid piece of kit as I can remove and replace the filter should it get dirty - it has a glass bowl. I would like to re-install it whilst everything is out of the car - anyone foresee a problem Exact name is 'Filter King, Made in Italy, Malpass. Seregno, Fuel pressure Regulator'. Better still here is a pic.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 7, 2010 19:28:37 GMT
Electric pumps have more consistent pressure so needle valves have to be good. The filter cannot do any harm but again a weak AC pump will not perform well with it The arm wear is typical and can break and drop into engine and damage camshaft lobe which also wears anyway
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