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Post by richie8664 on Dec 4, 2008 22:14:04 GMT
It's been suggested to me on a different forum that a possible alternative to the BW35 would be a more modern ZF 4HP-22 gearbox fitted to modern jags but using a land Rover of range Rover bellhousing.
Has anyone heard of or done this coversion?
Does anyone know which jag models it is fitted to?
It will require fitting EFI as there are connections from the box to the ECU but I'm considering that anyway.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 4, 2008 22:22:30 GMT
Yes been done and covered on here set Search for 2000 days just to make sure
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Post by harvey on Dec 4, 2008 22:41:01 GMT
For the V8 the box to have is the Sherpa V8 one. ZF4HP22 Four speed auto overdrive with no electronics and a cable speedo.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 4, 2008 23:06:40 GMT
Actually I thought he meant the 3.5 Litre! If he did perhaps I should move it if not I will amend my post as I have not heard of it being done for a 3 Litre and can see no benefit to do so
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Post by richie8664 on Dec 5, 2008 15:47:21 GMT
I did mean the 3.5 V8 not the 3 litre.
I could have sworn I'd put this in the right place.
Could someone please move this query to the 3.5 litre section?
Sorry!
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Post by harvey on Dec 5, 2008 17:09:01 GMT
If you don't want to go to the expense of the ZF box, the BW65 is generally a better box than the 35, and it can be upgraded as well, although it will always remain a 3 speed.
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miguel
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 462
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Post by miguel on Dec 5, 2008 18:33:22 GMT
Not really the topic, but in Practical Classics this month there's a tech report about BW 35. Miguel
PS: also about Riley RM which is my (my Dad's) other classic. Great january issue.
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Post by harvey on Dec 5, 2008 18:41:49 GMT
Not really the topic, but in Practical Classics this month there's a tech report about BW 35. Miguel Indeed there is, I had a look at it in the newsagents and found mistakes and errors galore just in a quick look, so didn't bother buying.
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Post by Smallfry on Dec 6, 2008 0:43:30 GMT
The 4HP22 was fitted to lots of vehicles, but most of which were electronically controlled. It can easily be adapted to with with the appropriate Range Rover parts, but I am not sure whats involved with overiding the electronics..........although I know it can be done. The Sherpa version is by far the easiest though, as its NOT electronic, and all the bits you need are there (provided you make sure you HAVE got them all from the seller) Its a shame really, as I have now sold the four I had. Now I find I am wanting one again ! Another possibility is an Aisin Warner unit as fitted to some Volvo 740/840 models. I believe these are now being fitted to Rover SD1s
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Post by enigmas on Dec 6, 2008 3:54:01 GMT
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Post by harvey on Dec 6, 2008 18:43:55 GMT
Take 100 cars with Rover V8's, 50 of them fitted with 35 boxes, and 50 fitted with 65 boxes, give each the same amount of use, and I GUARANTEE you will have more problems to sort out with the 35. This is not anecdotal information, its about 20 years of rebuilding the boxes in P6B's, and from that I can tell you that although the 65 may well only be a development of the 35, it gives problems less by about 5:1.
Some terrible spelling on those links BTW. As well as some questionable information.
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Post by enigmas on Dec 6, 2008 23:38:30 GMT
Harvey thanks for your views. Technical ability is not always associated with the ability to spell, to punctuate or even to use grammar correctly. Perhaps the English versions weren't as tough as the Aussie units which were upgraded progressively into the late 1980's. BW40 units had larger clutch drums, wider brake bands and a slightly beefier gear train (not interchangeable with the English components). BW51 units had a much beefier gear train than the BW40 and a one way clutch with an increased number of sprags as these gearboxes were fitted behind Fords very grunty inline fuel injected sixes of the period. The rear servo was further strengthened by a 3rd securing bolt. Anyone with mechanical knowledge of these boxes can fit the entire BW40 assembly into a 35 case, use the BW51 one way clutch, fit the latest valve body assembly and with a modicum of engineering skill fit the rear servo with the 3rd retaining bolt.
The Aussie development of the BW35 gearbox (35/40/51) was fitted behind engines in Fords, Valiants and of course P76s, ranging in capacity from 4.1 to almost 5 litres. It was also fitted and Warwick could probably correct me on this to the early 289ci Fords of the late 60's (1967?).
No, it's not the toughest auto around, but the unit illustrated many upgrades in this country because of Australia's generally very harsh conditions...great distances and extremes of weather throughout this continent. There is also a culture of larger family cars here and so the boxes were developed to suit local conditions and use.
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Post by Warwick on Dec 8, 2008 1:11:00 GMT
It was also fitted and Warwick could probably correct me on this to the early 289ci Fords of the late 60's (1967?). Sorry Vince; no idea. Didn't know much about Fords back then. The only Ford amongst my group of friends was a '28 A-Model. All the rest were Holden or BMC. But I see Aisin Warner mentioned again. Can that be found down here?
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Post by enigmas on Dec 8, 2008 8:04:52 GMT
Yes, they sure can Warwick...in Volvos and in Moorabbin if you want to try this option. The overdrive is not a lockup version. There is a post about the Aisin Warner on this tech site if you can find it.
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Post by Warwick on Dec 8, 2008 10:47:02 GMT
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Post by enigmas on Dec 9, 2008 9:13:04 GMT
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Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
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Post by Guus on Jul 16, 2009 18:59:43 GMT
I've done the conversion to a ZF4HP22 Four speed with a lot of satisfaction! Fitting it was an expensive operation though...
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jul 16, 2009 19:34:17 GMT
How about some details/pics?
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Sept 1, 2009 14:21:16 GMT
I've just seen this thread and thought I'd add some info passed on to me years ago by Graham Rigby.
He converted his V8 convertible to take the 4 speed auto from an 3 litre Opel Monza/Senator. The engines produced 160hp in basic/standard form and the gearboxes last well.
I seem to remember him saying you either remove 2 inches from the bellhousing and weld on the front 2 inches from the Rover bellhousing OR you do the same but cut the Opel Bellhousing back enough to ensure the splines are the same length.
Sorry for the vagueness but it was years ago he told me. I obtained one of these boxes so maybe I should get the tape measure out!
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Post by redsunbeam on Jan 29, 2010 14:36:58 GMT
Does anyone have the external dimensions of the bw35 box? Have looked all over t'internet and cant find them. Cheers
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Post by harvey on Jan 29, 2010 15:19:30 GMT
Does anyone have the external dimensions of the bw35 box? Have looked all over t'internet and cant find them. Cheers If you can wait a couple of days I'll drag one out and measure it.
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Post by redsunbeam on Jan 29, 2010 19:55:42 GMT
That will be great if can harvey. Thank you.
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Post by Warwick on Jan 29, 2010 23:13:56 GMT
Does anyone have the external dimensions of the bw35 box? Have looked all over t'internet and cant find them. Cheers If you can wait a couple of days I'll drag one out and measure it. Harvey, If you can sketch it up in profile from above and the side, and measure all the dimensions, I'll draw it up in AutoCAD and convert it to pdf for posting, e-mailing, etc.
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Post by harvey on Jan 30, 2010 20:40:57 GMT
If you can sketch it up in profile from above and the side, and measure all the dimensions, I'll draw it up in AutoCAD and convert it to pdf for posting, e-mailing, etc. The only way I'll be able to sketch it up is on a bit of paper, and I've tried shoving them in that tray thing on the computer and it just doesn't seem to work. I'll take a few measurements and then anyone can add them to a diagram if they have one, but you have to remember that the casings are tapered and probably offset to one side so definitive measurements are easier said than done. If you're looking for comparable boxes you'd need the front to rear, width both sides of the c/l and height above and below the c/l which is what i'd planned on measuring.
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Post by Warwick on Jan 31, 2010 7:35:40 GMT
How about taking a couple of profile photos Harvey? One from directly above, perhaps standing on a chair or step ladder to reduce parallax, and another from the side.
Print them off, write the dimensions on the drawing and then scan it and e-mail it to me. It will give me a staring point and then I can ask for other details if I need them. This would give people drawing to use for reference when measuring alternative boxes.
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