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Post by Steve P5b on Apr 11, 2014 8:51:34 GMT
English Wheel: Have a look at this: justinbaker.co.uk/Justin is a friend of mine. Mention my name and he'll charge you double Seriously, he into all old cars and loves my old Rover so he'll probably do you a deal. Thanks for the link, I'll have a good look.
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Post by Steve P5b on Apr 11, 2014 8:53:17 GMT
Alloy door skins wouldn't bother me! We might even save a couple of mpg! Like it And no more rust
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Post by Warwick on Apr 11, 2014 10:40:24 GMT
Strangely, I sold my English wheel several years ago as it took up too much room. Maybe it's time to get another. Steve Steve, Get a Chinese wheel. I think you'll find them a lot cheaper.
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Post by Welsh Warlock on Apr 11, 2014 10:52:33 GMT
Alloy door skins wouldn't bother me! We might even save a couple of mpg! Like it And no more rust They may be cheaper but I think you'll find them to be out of round and not terribly level.
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 13, 2014 20:48:33 GMT
Steve,
I have spend some hours on the RH door skin. I was able to clean up the weld so there were no pin holes anymore. Then i tried to straighten the panel but this was no successful, partly due to the fact that the repair panel doesn't have much stability because the center is not raised slightly(like you already stated)
I have thought about buying an Englisch wheel before but i don't have the space to store and i cannot justify it for just one door skin. The door is the last panel which needs serious sorting. If i would make, i would not choose aluminum. I cannot weld aluminum so welding up the gaps would not be possible. I searched for an old school panel beater with a decent rate to repair my door. I found one who could repair the door for 200-300 Euro's but good old school panel beaters with a decent rate have lots of work.... He was working on a Delhaye. He gave me another name and this week i will try the other panel beater.
Regards
Peter
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Post by Steve P5b on Apr 14, 2014 7:46:44 GMT
Steve, I have spend some hours on the RH door skin. I was able to clean up the weld so there were no pin holes anymore. Then i tried to straighten the panel but this was no successful, partly due to the fact that the repair panel doesn't have much stability because the center is not raised slightly(like you already stated) I have thought about buying an Englisch wheel before but i don't have the space to store and i cannot justify it for just one door skin. The door is the last panel which needs serious sorting. If i would make, i would not choose aluminum. I cannot weld aluminum so welding up the gaps would not be possible. I searched for an old school panel beater with a decent rate to repair my door. I found one who could repair the door for 200-300 Euro's but good old school panel beaters with a decent rate have lots of work.... He was working on a Delhaye. He gave me another name and this week i will try the other panel beater. Regards Peter Seems as though ally door skin is not a good idea, expert advice suggests electrolytic action will create fast corrosion without insulating the mating surfaces from each other which is difficult, so back to using steel. I have the same problem with the repair panels being flat and it's not good, previous repairs on my doors are poor and need rectifying. As you say , it's going to expensive!
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Post by Chuck Berry on Apr 14, 2014 8:14:26 GMT
You only need to look at Range Rovers and Land Rovers to see what happens to "Ally over Steel" I have had several 'Truck's and they all show corrosion at wheel arches and inner seams where the aluminium panel is fixed to the steel frame.
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 18, 2014 22:53:35 GMT
Have been adjusting the RH front door. Also checked the inner gaps. On the lower end of the D-post there was minimal clearance so removed a shimed beteen body and hinges. The gap between door and roof post was too small to fit the stainless door trim. After a lot of checking and re adjusting i found that the roof post on the RH side was 20 mm thick and on the LH side it was only 17 mm On the LH side the trim fitted good After a lot of considering, i decided to make a cut in the RH roof post and with heat it up with an acetylene torch and closed the gap and welded the post up so that the thickness is now 17mm on the RH side. It is l a tight fit but it works. The door frame is not the one which was originally fitted to the car. I wonder how they made it fit at the factory That's it for now Peter
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Post by enigmas on Apr 19, 2014 0:02:36 GMT
I tend to believe most gaps and trim were averaged out when these cars were first constructed. The trouble is that most of us tend to look at modern robotically built cars and take that as the standard for gap and panel fit. We're lucky to have the plethora of DIY equipment available today that we can rectify these details. Most panel shops during my youth had very limited equipment and were bolt, bog and paint specialists. An oxy/acetylene torch was considered high tech....an 'English wheel'...what's that. The reason I started to learn fabrication was of the 'unholy' mess and cover ups panel shops presented you with on completion of their work! All of the little tweaks and modifications you're doing Peter, is really in the realm of custom car design where fabrication and fit is everything. Check out Bill Hines: Bill Hines 'Lead Slinger' Bill Hines 'Leading Demo'
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 19, 2014 7:26:48 GMT
I tend to believe most gaps and trim were averaged out when these cars were first constructed. The trouble is that most of us tend to look at modern robotically built cars and take that as the standard for gap and panel fit. We're lucky to have the plethora of DIY equipment available today that we can rectify these details. Most panel shops during my youth had very limited equipment and were bolt, bog and paint specialists. An oxy/acetylene torch was considered high tech....an 'English wheel'...what's that. The reason I started to learn fabrication was of the 'unholy' mess and cover ups panel shops presented you with on completion of their work! All of the little tweaks and modifications you're doing Peter, is really in the realm of custom car design where fabrication and fit is everything. Check out Bill Hines: Bill Hines 'Lead Slinger' Bill Hines 'Leading Demo'Loved the video Vince I leaded my joins and it a good skill to learn (the cigar is optional I hope) and once you get the knack it's far better than plastic type fillers! they have there uses though. I think some times the gap thing is a bit OTT! they were never precision gaps as you say on a P5 they were basically hand built so that's the charm of the car as long as the gaps are near enough parallel, if you measure panels they are different from one car to another due to the presses steel etc.
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Post by enigmas on Apr 19, 2014 8:34:53 GMT
Bill Hines is a living legend in the custom car field. His cigar is his signature and seems to have been there forever. He's in his 80s and still works regularly customizing cars. Apparently he's metabolized enormous amounts of lead and mercury through a life time working with these materials. The lead he uses is also to his own formula and this is evident if you listen carefully to the video. Gene Winfield is also another superlative body and paint man...and of course George Barris (the Bat mobile..."Holy atomic pile, Batman!" . Glad you found it of interest John.
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 24, 2014 19:55:20 GMT
Thanks Vince, I enjoyed the video and it is amazing to see he is smoking during the lead work. He also Mig welds without a mask. He is true artist with the lead. It hardly needs filing after he went over it with the piece of cloth. I also need to do some lead work on my coupe. It is amazing to see how well it lasts. Much better then "Bondo". You also do well on bodywork. Some time ago i saw the work on your 2 door MG. That looks really good and was a reel challenge. In a way you cannot blame the body shops. If theyr MG or on my Rover, i would have cost a fortune. John, i agree with what you are saying. I would not adjust the gaps on a car with a good body but now when i am doing the body work, i want even gaps. Did some work on the RH rear door. I had only folded the skin over the frame and now welded up the holes which were created by drilling out he spot welds. Also welded up the gap on the curved skin part beneath the trim. The sill was not flush with the door. I had fitted the sills with the original rear door fitted but this door had a severely dented skin. After finishing the sills, i got a the pictured far better door from David Green. I cut off the end cover and after grinding some metal. fitted it flush with the door. That's it for now. Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on Apr 27, 2014 18:56:06 GMT
After finishing work on the RH rear door, today i work on the RH rear wing. Under the rear lights the rear wing fitted well. The gap with the rear door was not too bad but was only 2,5- 3 mm and i want it approx 5mm like most of the other gaps. Because the wing is curved on top, i didn't feel confident to widen the gap with hammer and dolly. I cut 6 pieces of 35mm wide and 2 mm thick sheet metal out of a plate and made an inner and outer kind of jig. First i used the rear door to make the outer jig. I clamped 2 strips on the door and made holes in the outer strips and filler welder the holes so the 2 strips were connected. Then added a third strips with the same method. After that i used the outer jig to make the inner jig (i put a strip of 1 mm thick between the jigs being a substitute for the door skin. After connecting the 3 strips of the inner jig, i out some welds on the outer sides to give the jigs additional strength. Then clamped the 2 jigs to the wing and hammered the side of the wing to increase the gap. Itl resulted in a nice gap of 5mm width. The wing need a little cleaning up It is a lot of work to make the jigs but now i have an even gap and the contours of door and wing are equal. I believe it can be done with hammer and dolly but i was afraid it would ruin the contour of the rear wing especially on the top end where it is curved. I compared the contours of some rear wings i have and especially underneath the rear light, all 3 wings had a different contour. Here is a picture of a scrap wing. I believe it was twice as heavy as the other wings due to the huge amount of filler on it. On one pint it was 8mm thick. That's it for now. Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on May 22, 2014 17:15:43 GMT
A fair amount of time was spend to make the gap on the topside equal so that the wing could be fitted free of stress.
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Post by petervdvelde on May 22, 2014 17:28:02 GMT
Used the "create post" button to early Then welded the bracket on to the wing. The hole with the nut on the backside didn't match with the hole in the wing bracket so a piece of the plate with the nut on the backside was cut out. The length of the cut out piece was chosen so that when turned around it would be on the correct position and was then welded into position. After some fiddling, the bracket on the wing fitted now well with the counterpart on the body. The gap between rear wing and rear door is now even and the height of the rear wing matches with the height of the door. That's it for now Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on May 22, 2014 17:47:02 GMT
Here is another picture of the endresult
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Post by GlennR on May 23, 2014 7:16:32 GMT
Looking great Peter
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Post by enigmas on May 23, 2014 9:00:25 GMT
Great work Peter, your attention to detail is really paying off. Just a little aside. I've spent some (considerable) time a while ago replacing the front door lock and latch. Getting the doors to close properly can induce an enormous headache, as it's not only the correct locking of the doors that matter but also their alignment with any adjacent panels. These 2 criteria can easily become at odds. So before you move on to other areas of the car, perhaps it would be in your interests to fit the door latches and locks. Doing it now should ensure that they fit and close as intended.
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Post by petervdvelde on May 25, 2014 20:15:55 GMT
Thanks Glenn. Thanks for the advice Vince. The door locks are all fitted to the doors except for the outer door handles. I will trial fit all these kind of items before the car goes to the paint shop because it is very frustrating if grinding is needed after the car comes back from the paint shop. I read your thread about adjusting the locks with interest. As you say, the P5 just deserves good closing doors with a nice clunk.
In the meantime i brought the RH front door to the old school panel beater who was working on the Delhaye. He will fit (partly) a new skin with a raised center. The panel beater recently bought an MGB V8 conversion and i will assist him with some engine overhaul work so it is not gonna cost me a lot of money.
Peter
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Post by enigmas on May 26, 2014 2:07:01 GMT
That's a win win situation Peter. I had a similar trade of skills many years ago with a machinist who 'turned-up' a front axle for a 'hotrod' WLA Harley Davidson I was building. In return for his work I trued the spoke wheels of the replica Henry Ford Quadricycle that he was building Henry Ford's QuadricycleIncidentally, the rear door in the picture above is the one that is referenced on my post about 'adjusting the door locks'. (It only took me 20 years to figure out how to adjust the doors correctly )
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Post by petervdvelde on Sept 11, 2014 19:58:48 GMT
Started working again on the body of my other P5B which had only gathering dust to the purchase of and work done on the project P5B. Here a picture of the partly re skinned front RH door which was done by an old school metal man who has all kind of special tools and an English wheel which he used to create a raised center in the skin. He TIG welded the connection between the upper and lower skin part. He stated that TIG welding put less heat in the panel so less distortion and the weld is not so hard as a MIG weld. He welded approx 3-4 cm and then with hammer and dolly hammered the weld to remove the shrink and the went on welding and hammering again. After that he removed small deformation with the English wheel. First job for me was to make a hole for the door lock and trial fit the door handle Trial fitting the door showed that the gap with the rear door only needs minor work where the skin parts are joined The gap with the front wing needs some more work The gap with the sill is perfect (didn't make a picture). i asked the metal man to make it a little bigger and it fits perfect. Thats it for now Peter
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Post by Warwick on Sept 12, 2014 3:17:18 GMT
... which was done by an old school metal man ... Nice work as usual Peter. I wish I could report even a small amount of progress, and I have nowhere near as much to do as the project you've undertaken. And may I commend you on the correct use of the term "old school". It seems to have come into fashion lately and it's being done to death by all and sundry who are using it instead of old fashioned, or just old. Only a person can be "old school". An object cannot - for obvious reasons. My car is not old school.
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Post by enigmas on Sept 12, 2014 9:11:00 GMT
Who's old skool? Too much American Chopper! Unfortunately basic literacy has seemed to evaporate into the world of the mono syllabic world of the kool skool bogan fabricator. The sad fact of the matter is that they don't even realize.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 9:30:25 GMT
Hey Warwick, are you inferring that you are in fact old school?
The text was very subtley (subtly?!) worded and most of us realise that the car cannot be old school.
Then again other boxes could be ticked for no school, pre-school, private school...
Vince if I recall correctly has a teaching background. Old school?
Glad Peter occasionally has to resort to a metal man anyway. I am so envious of him doing everything himself!
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Post by p5bdownunder on Sept 12, 2014 12:54:14 GMT
Who's old skool? Too much American Chopper! Unfortunately basic literacy has seemed to evaporate into the world of the mono syllabic world of the kool skool bogan fabricator. The sad fact of the matter is that they don't even realize. Vince, you & I and maybe a few other Aussies on the forum can relate to the term 'bogan'. Perhaps you should extrapolate further....?
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