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Post by gilbern on Sept 29, 2014 22:12:54 GMT
Hi, not been very active on here , as I have been driving the p5b about instead. A small problem is developing into a larger one. What started as a small engine oil leak dropping onto the exhaust pipe on the drivers side, ahead of the gearbox is now fast becoming a river of engine oil. The car is a very original 1970 P5b saloon.
I might have added to the problem as I was advised to cap off the engine plastic rear breather pipe. I did this for a longer journey or two but since has returned it to factory spec. as reading on here it is not a good idea.
I am not sure where the oil leak is coming from but I know where it is going. ie: onto the drivers side exhaust cross over pipe under the car. I have tried to clean the area up & I am now getting regular reminders from other road users on my new smoking habit. I am open to advice on this & where to start on this?
Thanks Julian |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Sept 29, 2014 22:28:13 GMT
The old type rope crank seals seals are very prone to leaks - plenty on search but check flame traps and carb inlets are clean and clear clear. If too much oil is not being lost then a deflector plate for the exhaust stops hot oil smoke and fumes.
Conversion to later rubber seal is best but only on a rebuild
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Post by enigmas on Sept 30, 2014 3:24:30 GMT
Julian you need to locate the source of the leak before you arrive at a course of action. Blocking off the breathers builds up internal pressure within the engine which would promote oil leaks not the opposite. Check the rocker cover gaskets as these can often weep oil down the side of the block.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 8:11:01 GMT
The old type rope crank seals seals are very prone to leaks - plenty on search but check flame traps and carb inlets are clean and clear clear. If too much oil is not being lost then a deflector plate for the exhaust stops hot oil smoke and fumes. Conversion to later rubber seal is best but only on a rebuild Just to add to this, I had a similar leak many years back on my 1971 car which I assume has the early seal.Solution was to clean all the flame traps inlets etc to create a proper flow of air through the engine. The leak stopped immediately. I also made a baffle plate as suggested to keep any drips away from the exhaust. I've had no trouble since. Somewhere in search, you will find a diagram of the ventilation path through the engine. If any part of it is blocked, pressure will build and oil forced out of the seal which seems very sensitive to any crankcase pressure. Before I sorted the problem, a gauge placed over the oil filler showed positive pressure but now if I unscrew the cap, I can hear air being drawn through. |
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Post by David on Sept 30, 2014 8:25:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 9:04:38 GMT
I would certainly go down the easy cleaning route before trying to renew the seal! Any crankcase pressure will force oil out somewhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 16:31:18 GMT
I would certainly go down the easy cleaning route before trying to renew the seal! Any crankcase pressure will force oil out somewhere. Further to my earlier post, this is how the ventilation works on the V8.It all starts with suction from each of the carbs. The air passes into the air cleaner intake (before the elements) and out the back via the small hose. It then passes through the in-line filter (the same as the fuel filter and is there to prevent dust entering the crankcase) and into the crankcase.It then passes up through the oil drain passageways into the rocker covers and along the larger rubber hoses and flame traps into the carbs where the fumes are burnt. The flame traps contain gauze to trap any flash back which might find its way into the crankcase with the potential for an explosion.The gauze acts in the same way as a miners lamp and is not meant to act as a filter. They can be cleaned by swilling in paraffin etc.Make sure the gauze is intact. The potential for full or partial blockage exists anywhere in the system but the small hose and the filter are likely to be blocked more than the bigger hoses. The whole system depends on good air flow and when sorted, should eliminate most leaks which are caused by excessive crankcase pressure. It's certainly best to try this before resorting to a seal change. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 16:33:03 GMT
I would certainly go down the easy cleaning route before trying to renew the seal! Any crankcase pressure will force oil out somewhere. Further to my earlier post, this is how the ventilation works on the V8.It all starts with suction from each of the carbs. The air passes into the air cleaner intake (before the elements) and out the back via the small hose. It then passes through the in-line filter (the same as the fuel filter and is there to prevent dust entering the crankcase) and into the crankcase.It then passes up through the oil drain passageways into the rocker covers and along the larger rubber hoses and flame traps into the carbs where the fumes are burnt. The flame traps contain gauze to trap any flash back which might find its way into the crankcase with the potential for an explosion.The gauze acts in the same way as a miners lamp and is not meant to act as a filter. They can be cleaned by swilling in paraffin etc.Make sure the gauze is intact. The potential for full or partial blockage exists anywhere in the system but the small hose and the filter are likely to be blocked more than the bigger hoses. The whole system depends on good air flow and when sorted, should eliminate most leaks which are caused by excessive crankcase pressure. It's certainly best to try this before resorting to a seal change. |
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Post by Jens Munk on Sept 30, 2014 19:07:42 GMT
In addition to the not very long lived rope seals used in these older engines, I have also personally experienced that the valve cover / intake manifold seal can leak heavily. The oil runs on rear end of the engine and end up on the cross-over pipe when you go faster than a certain speed. If you take off the air cleaner, you can see if this is the case. I have replaced this seal and it has reduced the oil spill and the oil smoke at higher speeds. It still leaks a little from the rear seal (I replaced the front seal). Jens. Hi, not been very active on here , as I have been driving the p5b about instead. A small problem is developing into a larger one. What started as a small engine oil leak dropping onto the exhaust pipe on the drivers side, ahead of the gearbox is now fast becoming a river of engine oil. The car is a very original 1970 P5b saloon.
I might have added to the problem as I was advised to cap off the engine plastic rear breather pipe. I did this for a longer journey or two but since has returned it to factory spec. as reading on here it is not a good idea.
I am not sure where the oil leak is coming from but I know where it is going. ie: onto the drivers side exhaust cross over pipe under the car. I have tried to clean the area up & I am now getting regular reminders from other road users on my new smoking habit. I am open to advice on this & where to start on this?
Thanks Julian |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 18:14:31 GMT
Gilbern, it's really a question of good manners, if you ask a question and people bother to respond, that you at least acknowledge the fact!
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kaiser
Rover Fanatic
worth his V8 in gold!
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Post by kaiser on Oct 3, 2014 21:03:21 GMT
He might still be stuck in oil up to his elbows and does not want to oil his keyboard. Just a guess, mind you!  |
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Post by gilbern on Oct 5, 2014 18:01:15 GMT
Hi all, Thanks for the all the help/advice & points to check. I have, as observed by another forum member, been deep in oil in between the day job.
Today : So far I have not found a much of an oil leak at the rear of the top of the engine. In fact the inlet manifold valley had rust on it, which I have treated. Found a small leak on the drivers side rocker cover gasket at the far edges of the cover.
If I get time this week I will reassemble the top end with new gaskets/ new engine breather / new flame traps....repaint the rocker covers etc & then go under the car with gunk & a pressure washer to clean it up. Starting to think it could be sump or the crank seal? as I have found no great evidence at the top of the engine.
I will revert as I make more progress & intend to follow the advice on making an exhaust baffle on the cross pipe piece to stop the smoking issue. But as I spend too many hours at work on computer systems & PCs .....I don't do much PC stuff at home, so apologies for my silence. I tend to go in the garage instead to either fix the Rover or continue my Vitesse rebuild. Regards Julian
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Post by gilbern on Oct 13, 2014 11:51:44 GMT
An update as promised: Top end: Fitted new rubber rocker cover gaskets with sealant. Fitted new engine breather, new flame traps & cleaned out all pipework. Fitted new air cleaners & repainted air cleaner, rocker covers.
Bottom end: Cleaned up oil from complete engine / gearbox/ exhaust ( including the rear box) & power washed under car. Re-ran engine & checked sump gasket. No leak. I purchased & used a can of Wynns oil leak sealer into the engine oil. Fitted an alloy reversed "C" shaped plate across the drivers side exhaust pipe, hung from the bottom two bell housing bolts.
Yesterday; I took the car for a 40 mins drive. So far no smell & no fumes. Parked the car for 3 hours & then moved the car. I have found a small leak of red ATF fluid & maybe a small leak on the power steering pump but no oil leak at all? I think I don't have a major leak on the rear crank seal. I can live with the small ATF fluid leaks until I next have to work under the car again.
The car is back to driving well & looking superb again. Thanks for all the practical help & advice on this subject.
Regards Julian
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 13:02:05 GMT
An update as promised: Top end: Fitted new rubber rocker cover gaskets with sealant. Fitted new engine breather, new flame traps & cleaned out all pipework. Fitted new air cleaners & repainted air cleaner, rocker covers.
Bottom end: Cleaned up oil from complete engine / gearbox/ exhaust ( including the rear box) & power washed under car. Re-ran engine & checked sump gasket. No leak. I purchased & used a can of Wynns oil leak sealer into the engine oil. Fitted an alloy reversed "C" shaped plate across the drivers side exhaust pipe, hung from the bottom two bell housing bolts.
Yesterday; I took the car for a 40 mins drive. So far no smell & no fumes. Parked the car for 3 hours & then moved the car. I have found a small leak of red ATF fluid & maybe a small leak on the power steering pump but no oil leak at all? I think I don't have a major leak on the rear crank seal. I can live with the small ATF fluid leaks until I next have to work under the car again.
The car is back to driving well & looking superb again. Thanks for all the practical help & advice on this subject.
Regards Julian
Glad the engine oil leak is sorted. Was there much crud in the breather pipework? No comment on the Wynns as an additive as I have no experience of it but I don't suppose it can do any harm in the engine oil. Some ATF leakage is common. It's just Rovers way of telling you there's some fluid left!  |
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Post by gilbern on Oct 14, 2014 20:40:00 GMT
Crud in the breather pipes? Yes there was a bit in the connecting pipework washed out in the petrol bath but the actual plastic tube/engine breather was fairly black inside. I think I will make the plastic engine breather filter "a regular replacement item" along with air filters & clean out the flame traps etc. I guess the main issue was the rocker covers gasket age & the pressure on them at motorway speeds; causing the engine oil to travel down & out & then across the exhaust pipes. Fixing it was interesting & it got me under the car for several days. Thanks for the help on this. Regards Julian
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