Resuscitating a P5 - clink.. clink... clink... clink

[tedlit]

Looking for a bit of advice on this one. I'm attempting to revive a 1965 P5 manual Coupe that's been off the road since '08... so in the grand scheme of things, not all that long. It was stored outside so the interior isn't great, but mechanically... there is one problem.

Ignoring the fact that the choke cable is broken, it actually starts and runs OK. It's not the easiest car to start, but it has good compression and idles comfortably when warm.

The problems is... when it's cranking.. there's this very distinct tick... tick.. tick... tick.. from under the bonnet. It *sounds* like a valve guide to me, but it's pretty loud. So far, I've had both valve covers off and found no broken springs or rods or anything else visibly untoward. I've taken the intake cam off completely and it still does it. 

So the question is... where would you look next? The good, even compression makes me not want to take the head off.. but it's a loud, loud noise and I'd really like to know what it is. I can't hear it when the car's actually running.. but I'm pretty sure the engine's louder than the noise.

Any thoughts very much appreciated...

[haikuhead]

Could it be an electric fuel pump? They do make a tick, tick, ticking sound but the engine noise will cover it up when the car is running.

[Warwick]

Damaged starter motor pinion?

[Geoff]

Sounds like a broken or missing tooth off the flywheel, which while cranking makes that sound when it comes around to the starter motor gear cog.
I speak from experience.......
I found a broken gear tooth laying at the bottom of the flywheel housing (the open mesh area - you can unscrew the mesh easily from under the car to check). This was ages ago before engine restoration, and I had to replace the flywheel gear. Not sure what caused it to break, and it was probably broken for some time before I purchased the vehicle. The bendix spring on the starter motor was also snapped - maybe this caused it?
Good luck,
Geoff Rogers.

[tedlit]

Hmm... starter or starter gear is a good idea. That would never have occurred to me. The starter seemed to "work" so I haven't looked in that area at all!

I don't think it's the fuel pump.. the enormous original two-sided SU pump has been replaced with a single Facet pump which is absolutely dead quiet.

[kaiser]

Jan 19, 2015 0:29:55 GMT tedlit said:

Looking for a bit of advice on this one. I'm attempting to revive a 1965 P5 manual Coupe that's been off the road since '08... so in the grand scheme of things, not all that long. It was stored outside so the interior isn't great, but mechanically... there is one problem.

Ignoring the fact that the choke cable is broken, it actually starts and runs OK. It's not the easiest car to start, but it has good compression and idles comfortably when warm.

The problems is... when it's cranking.. there's this very distinct tick... tick.. tick... tick.. from under the bonnet. It *sounds* like a valve guide to me, but it's pretty loud. So far, I've had both valve covers off and found no broken springs or rods or anything else visibly untoward. I've taken the intake cam off completely and it still does it. 

So the question is... where would you look next? The good, even compression makes me not want to take the head off.. but it's a loud, loud noise and I'd really like to know what it is. I can't hear it when the car's actually running.. but I'm pretty sure the engine's louder than the noise.

Any thoughts very much appreciated...

I would fix the choke, first of all. That should make starting instantaneous, and you then don't have to listen to the noise when cranking over.
Much the best solution.

[Deleted]

Try and work out the frequency of the click. If it seems like one click per revolution of the engine it could be a tooth knocked off,or damaged. on the ring gear. If it's far more frequent it could be the same thing but on the starter. Possibly worth having a look at the ring gear to make sure.

[stantondavies]

My immediate thought was the starter. I take it that you have listened carefully to the running engine with a 'stethoscope' to check if the click is still there and it's location?

[tedlit]

Jan 19, 2015 10:08:26 GMT @kevbacon said:

Try and work out the frequency of the click. If it seems like one click per revolution of the engine it could be a tooth knocked off,or damaged. on the ring gear. If it's far more frequent it could be the same thing but on the starter. Possibly worth having a look at the ring gear to make sure.

It seems like six or seven times per revolution to me. 

I was actually surprised the obviously-original starter works so well. However, I've already got the exhaust out (without a single broken bolt!), so it's all pretty accessible. I wonder what I'll find....

[tedlit]

Weeeeeeeeeeelllllllllll... pretty sure it's the ring gear. I can see five or six missing teeth - all individual rather than in one place. Have yet to remove the starter, but I'd bet it's fine. The "cover" on the bellhousing is missing - there's three square holes through which I can clearly see the ring gear. I'm imagining that's how the teeth got broken!

Anyone happen to know if the flywheel / ring gear matches any Series Land Rover applications?

[Phil Nottingham]

As its a manual it may - the LWB S2 & S3 used the 2.6L IOE of the P4 95 which is just a smaller version of the 3 Litre.  Worn teeth are common as starter is not pre-engaged.

Regular ticking can also be either blowing exhaust manifold - they distort easily especially if overtightened or assembled wrongly and then they need refacing OR it could be a flat on one of the valve roller tappets which part seize if badly maintained - left it will damage the camshaft

[Deleted]

This page might be a place to start,they list ring gears for the four and six cylinder land rovers....land Rover ring gear.