|
Post by Ed from Surrey (member 236) on Feb 23, 2015 14:49:37 GMT
How about Halford's 20w50 Classic Motor Oil (mineral oil) £ 19.99
|
|
|
Post by Welsh Warlock on Feb 23, 2015 15:28:02 GMT
How about Halford's 20w50 Classic Motor Oil (mineral oil) £ 19.99 Absolutely fine Edd but £19.99 sounds expensive - checks its a 5 litre can and not just 4 as well. ETA: A bit of googling suggest Halfords are supplied by Comma. Try a local motor factors and you'll probably find its half the price sold as Comma 20/50
|
|
|
Post by Colin McA on Feb 23, 2015 16:52:29 GMT
I used to like Duckhams, who used to supply halfords the green colour was a giveaway.
I buy comma 20/50 and cant say I have had any problems it is £10 for 5 litres.
I change my oil at 1,000-1,500 miles.
The branded oils are good but on antique engines like ours is there a benefit from high spec oils? I would rather used better quality filters than more expensive oil.
All down to personal preferance.
I havent seen the supermarket 20/50 for a while, used to be £4 for 5litres. That was a good flushing oil.
Colin
|
|
|
Post by lagain on Feb 23, 2015 22:13:59 GMT
Remembered today that when I had my engine rebuilt some 20 or more years ago they told me that the shell bearings were very worn. The engine had done 85000 miles. If I remember correctly the crank shaft rotates in the shell bearings and is dependent on the engine oil for lubrication and the better the oil the better the lubrication. Personally I would not use Halfords mineral 20/50, unless the engine is well worn.
These engines have been described as very basic, it is the design that is basic. The engine itself is a work of art with clearances of thousands of an inch and it deserves a quality oil.
|
|
|
Post by Warwick on Feb 24, 2015 5:08:06 GMT
I probably should clarify something, just in case it's been misunderstood. Although zinc and phosphorus are minerals, their presence in the oil as zinc dialkyldithiophosphate has nothing to do with the lubricant being a mineral oil. The label of the appropriate oil to use may give the amount of ZDDP present, stated as zinc and phosphorus, but these are not present in their elemental forms. They aren't there as a consequence of the oil being mineral oil. ZDDP is not natural. It's an additive molecule that was first added to aero engine oil to solve wearing problems in areas of extreme pressure between bearing surfaces. It was later adopted for use in car engine oils.
So to recap, it's a chemical additive that was used for decades but has been discontinued (disallowed) because it chemically damages modern catalytic converters, and modern engines don't require it. It's available as an additive but it's more cost effective to buy an oil already containing it from one of the reputable 'classic' motor oil manufacturers. The Buick V8, and all other engines built probably 10 to 15 years before it and 20 to 25 years after it, were designed to use an oil containing ZDDP. It's particularly important in the Buick/Rover and their close relatives, because the engine is known to wear more than most in that area anyway. Modern oils are designed for modern engines (and vice versa) and these don't have the same rubbing pressures that occur between a cam lobe and a flat-headed tappet (cam-follower, lifter).
I should add that I only know this because of the research that Vince did several years ago, and my subsequent reading on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by Welsh Warlock on Feb 24, 2015 9:20:08 GMT
Remembered today that when I had my engine rebuilt some 20 or more years ago they told me that the shell bearings were very worn. The engine had done 85000 miles. If I remember correctly the crank shaft rotates in the shell bearings and is dependent on the engine oil for lubrication and the better the oil the better the lubrication. Personally I would not use Halfords mineral 20/50, unless the engine is well worn. These engines have been described as very basic, it is the design that is basic. The engine itself is a work of art with clearances of thousands of an inch and it deserves a quality oil. The wear on the shell bearings at 85K miles for an engibe designed in the 50's and built in the 60s or 70 s isn't a surprise. Much of the wear will be dependant upon how the engine has been treated both in servicing and in operation. High revving on start up will cause much more wera than long periods of high revs of a warm engine. Overheating will cause the high bearing wear too along with blocked oil galleries from poor maintenanace starving the bearings of oil, hence my mention of the colour of the oil in my earlier post. There is nothing artitic or particularly close tolerance about the Rover V8 in the form its fitted to the Rover. If you want a high performance Rover V8 then talk to John Eales at JE Engineering or Rob or Shaun at V8 Developments. They spend much time and (customers') money turning these engines from basic power plants to performance machines. I maintain that regular oil changes (less than 3000 miles - prefreably every 1000 - or 12 months) using a 20/50 oil is far better for the engine than less regular changes using a "higher quality" oil. However, if you feel it has benefits putting £30 to £50 worth of oil in an changing it every 3000 miles that's your prerogative.
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 24, 2015 9:27:18 GMT
I have changed to Penrite oil since the supplier I used to use changed the ZDDP content, I change the oil and filter every year regardless of mileage, I know £30+ may seem a lot to some but if you know you are getting a "really good oil" for me it's worth the extra cost, and the price difference over the year is a couple of gallons of petrol PENRITE OIL
|
|
|
Post by richardlamsdale on Feb 24, 2015 9:29:20 GMT
I agree Warwick. I'm not as knowledgeable as you on this, but from my reading I believe it's dangerous to say most modern oils will perform better than oils in the 1960's therefore almost any modern oil will do for our cars. I'm sure most modern oils will work better than older oils for their intended purpose in a newer car, but older engines were designed to work with the specific oil characteristics of their time. The very low annual mileage most of our cars are driven means that any problem is unlikely to appear for quite some time. That doesn't mean it isn't happening, just that some of us (and I include myself) may not be around to see the effects .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 10:00:34 GMT
I agree Warwick. I'm not as knowledgeable as you on this, but from my reading I believe it's dangerous to say most modern oils will perform better than oils in the 1960's therefore almost any modern oil will do for our cars. I'm sure most modern oils will work better than older oils for their intended purpose in a newer car, but older engines were designed to work with the specific oil characteristics of their time. The very low annual mileage most of our cars are driven means that any problem is unlikely to appear for quite some time. That doesn't mean it isn't happening, just that some of us (and I include myself) may not be around to see the effects . It's all getting a bit complicated! My summary would be: 1) Don't use a modern synthetic oil designed for modern engines with much finer tolerances. 2) Do change the oil & filter once a year or every 1500/2000 miles whichever comes first. 3) Don't use a very cheap mineral oil from the supermarket as they might not contain the right additives. 4) Do use a decent "classic car" oil such as premium makes eg: Penrite, Castrol etc or mid price such as Comma etc (Remember that you are often paying for the prestige name when buying the expensive stuff) 5) Bear in mind that most owners will be in the custody of the "Grim Reaper" long before the engines wear out as many of us will need 50/100 years to put 100,000 on the clock ( I've done 30000 in 35 years)
|
|
|
Post by Ed from Surrey (member 236) on Feb 24, 2015 15:23:03 GMT
How about Halford's 20w50 Classic Motor Oil (mineral oil) £ 19.99 Absolutely fine Edd but £19.99 sounds expensive - checks its a 5 litre can and not just 4 as well. ETA: A bit of googling suggest Halfords are supplied by Comma. Try a local motor factors and you'll probably find its half the price sold as Comma 20/50 Halfords is 5 litres. Last I bought from my local factor was Valvoline at £ 25 ! Think I need to search for cheap Comma supply
|
|
|
Post by Warwick on Feb 25, 2015 3:36:17 GMT
Yes, of course, an important factor is your annual mileage. But if you are looking for a ZDDP oil, don't just rely on the label "Classic" or "for older engines". Read the label and it will tell you what the concentration is. (See Enigmas' thread). Also bear in mind that Castrol GTX is not the same as it was when these cars were new. Different oil; same name. Castrol has confirmed this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 14:53:30 GMT
What has happened to Castrol TQF for the gearbox ? I bought some off ebay a couple of years ago. Since my engine was rebuilt some 20 years ago I have used semi synthetic, at the moment it is Millers 20/50. When I was in the Stag club they recommended a Valvolene 20/50 that was used for classic Ford racing - or something ! I think that it had a high ZZP - or something that is good for old engines. Our engines may be a fairly basic design but they are not a basic cost to rebuild ! However if the engine has always had a mineral oil probably not a good idea to go semi synthetic as the detergents that it may have can dislodge the sludge. Make sure that the EP 80/90 for the rear axle is GL4 specification. GL5 will damage the internals. Had a bit of tidy up of the shed today. I noticed that the Comma EP85w - 140 oil I used to change the diff oil a couple of years back is GL5 spec. I've done some reading about the difference between GL4 & GL5 specs when used in gearboxes etc due to the possible effect on non-ferrous components.As the only two non-ferrous items I'm aware of in the diff are the brass filler & drain plugs, does it matter especially on a low mileage pa? It seems that the main problem with GL5 type oils is the amount of Extreme Pressure additive that tends to attack any brass and copper components but only under very high temperatures. I hope no one's going to spoil my weekend!!
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 28, 2015 17:06:49 GMT
I very much doubt it - there are loads of corrosive fluids that will attack our cars even when not in use eg condensation. Why not try a slightly tarnished brass plug/screw and leave it to soak - it is unlikely to even clean it
New GL5 spec are supposed to be compatible anyway and far from all old spec GL5's caused many problems
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 17:12:51 GMT
I very much doubt it - there are loads of corrosive fluids that will attack our cars even when not in use eg condensation. Why not try a slightly tarnished brass plug/screw and leave it to soak - it is unlikely to even clean it Thanks. Since posting, I've done a lot more research and come to the conclusion that a GL5 spec is probably better anyway in our differentials due to the higher concentration of EP additives compared to the earlier GL4 spec oil.
|
|