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Post by nz on Feb 16, 2018 21:30:42 GMT
I removed my subframe yesterday, P5. I left the power steer box in place, and simply undid the 3 retaining bolts and nuts, and the subframe came down. Then I undid one clamp bolt at the fabric, and removed the box. Simple. I can't see why the column has to be touched. Used a pipe across top of the 'guards with a chain to support the engine that stayed in place. Doing all this because my Hydrosteer has driven me mad, so a Toyota Hi-Ace power rack is going in. Paul. NZ.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 16, 2018 22:19:12 GMT
I removed my subframe yesterday, P5. I left the power steer box in place, and simply undid the 3 retaining bolts and nuts, and the subframe came down. Then I undid one clamp bolt at the fabric, and removed the box. Simple. I can't see why the column has to be touched. Used a pipe across top of the 'guards with a chain to support the engine that stayed in place. Doing all this because my Hydrosteer has driven me mad, so a Toyota Hi-Ace power rack is going in. Paul. NZ. Keep us informed with your progress and the technical aspects of fitting the power rack conversion Paul, if possible...it sounds very interesting. Just for the sake of (my) curiousity, a couple of questions. 1. Are the outer steering rack pivots currently correct to minimise or correct bump steer. 2. The P5 steering arms (outer) aren't angled for correct ackermann; will you be modifying their current angle?
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Post by nz on Feb 16, 2018 22:34:19 GMT
*************Just for the sake of (my) curiousity, a couple of questions. 1. Are the outer steering rack pivots currently correct to minimise or correct bump steer. 2. The P5 steering arms (outer) aren't angled for correct ackermann; will you be modifying their current angle? ***** Gidday The 'circa '92 Toyota Hi-Ace power rack is one of two that I know are front mounted. BMW 3 series is the other, but is too narrow. The Toyota width between pivots is almost spot on. I'll be mounting it slightly closer (1") to the front, but angling the rack ends back a tad won't affect anything. This is just so the brackets aren't insanely long. I didn't know the P5 has incorrect Ackermann. Hmm. Toe-out (or in) on turns....I may need to make a multi-holed bracket for adjustment up or down. Unfortunately the steering shaft went straight through my modified engine mounts. So back to the drawing board for new left side mounting. Why am I doing all this! I'm an old man, and my Daimler does everything and more (4 wheel discs, lower CoG, and already has a power rack.) Maybe the Rover gets under one's skin. Or maybe I'm too far in $$$-wise to bail. Photos to follow soonish. Paul. NZ.
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Post by nz on Feb 16, 2018 22:52:04 GMT
The Toyota outer ball joints are too long. But the outer shafts are thicker than the Rover ones, so a Rover thread can be turned on the shaft, and Rover ball joints are shorter, so the total box width is perfect. Clear as mud. The saga with Hydrosteer. My 'mate' cranked the steering so hard that the housing broke. Bought another box. ($350) Damaged at the seals, so leaked. Bought another box ($450), but it's a Mark 111 one, so it's 3.5 turns lock to lock, where my original '64 one was 2.6 turns. So now it feels that it wanders. I spaced my top outer arms back 1/4", and that helped. More negative caster of course. I feel the worst part of a Rover is the steering. I have no access to Volvo parts in NZ. That $800 wasted would have paid to get Daimler almost perfect. Paul.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 17, 2018 3:09:01 GMT
That's bad news about the Rover PSB and your mate's hamfisted use of it Paul. I had my MK3 box overhauled and modified years ago by a former Jaguar mechanic who specializes in hydrosteer PS boxes and it's been leak free ever since. I've never paid too much attention to lock to lock ratio as I've had (in the past) several fitted from various sources. Like wise, I altered the top wishbones so the car has 3° positive caster and doesn't wander about at speed like many P5Bs do (scary!) (My MK3 is fitted with a P76 V8 engine)
As for the P5 range of cars, I'm not saying the ackermann is incorrect...moreso that the ackermann is derived from the pitman and idler arms, these have the correct angles. The outer steering arms are straight and will have to be bent outwards closer to the wheel rim to obtain the correct ackermann angle with the rack and pinion setup. (Vince)
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Post by nz on Feb 27, 2018 0:40:55 GMT
****You wrote..... The outer steering arms are straight and will have to be ***bent*** outwards closer to the wheel rim to obtain the correct ackermann angle with the rack and pinion setup. (Vince) Hi Vince. New Zealand laws don't allow ANY bending or welding of suspension components. Too many eg Chev V8's in too many eg Morris Minors, leading to the inevitable, ruined all that for us. The power rack is a bothersome job, as the power rack 'head' goes right through my modified engine mount, driver's side. The Toyota shaft to Rover shaft has to have a centre bearing if I use two universals. All bad. I've measured up a Mitsubishi power box. It'll fit, but the drop arm spline is smaller. See above I have 2 dismantled Hydrosteers. (As well as the complete one that works.) I've ordered an o/haul kit from UK. If I can feel happy with the rebuild of my earlier 2.4 turns Rover box, I may persevere. Options wide open, and the years are running down! Paul. NZ.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 27, 2018 2:51:27 GMT
Paul, John (Admin on this forum) modified his own OEM PSB so that it wouldn't produce the factory fault (a constant weeping leak from where the pitman fits) by machining the case for another quad seal (I believe?)...why not try PMing him. He's very knowledgeable. There's also a mod for the pump relief valve to minimise excessive pressure within the system.
PS. Baring the above the Volvo PSB fits with minimal changes including the Rover pitman arm fitting the splines precisely. This has been fitted by several owners. As Phil says...the lots of info on the board so check out the 'search' function!
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Post by nz on Feb 27, 2018 3:55:27 GMT
Vince, I went down the Volvo road. The supplier told me the Rover boys have cleaned him out. I'm on the list if one comes up. In li'l ol' new Zealand, all the meagre supply of scrapped Volvos are long gone. A minor classic now. I've read and re-read all the info on here about them. I went one step further with my Hydrosteer seals on 2nd 'rebuild'. I got the case machined to take a hard-backed seal/pitman. That fixed the leak. Ditto with the one at the steering shaft end. The box was perfectly dry. But it only provided power assistance one way! I've studied the w/shop manual, and d/loaded info from the 'net. I suspect the parts I have have been around the block once too many. You'd think after being an auto trans repairer (self-employed) since 1974, I'd be ok. Fail. I'll try ONE more time, then I'll be stumped. Paul. PS, I'm using a Nissan pump. It came with the Nissan engine, and worked well with the first 2 boxes.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 27, 2018 8:22:06 GMT
Paul, John (Admin on this forum) modified his own OEM PSB so that it wouldn't produce the factory fault (a constant weeping leak from where the pitman fits) by machining the case for another quad seal (I believe?)...why not try PMing him. He's very knowledgeable. There's also a mod for the pump relief valve to minimise excessive pressure within the system. PS. Baring the above the Volvo PSB fits with minimal changes including the Rover pitman arm fitting the splines precisely. This has been fitted by several owners. As Phil says...the lots of info on the board so check out the 'search' function! Hi Vince its a case of line boring the box with new a bush then a 10 bar double lip seal followed by a retainer ring plus a few other O Rings/Quad Ring while your in there
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 27, 2018 8:28:20 GMT
Paul if you only have assistance in one direction seems a bit strange? it can only be you haven't aligned the Spool correctly? I have seen a few boxes with tell tale marks where the roll pins shouldn't have been!!
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Post by nz on Feb 27, 2018 19:31:30 GMT
Yep, mine bears witness to marks where the roll pin wasn't aligned at some ancient rebuild However, the one(s) I did are aligned correctly. I suspect my dished plates have lost their ....dish. I've had three different H/steers in the car, and in and out 8 times. Down to 10 minutes a time. The last one I bought works ok, but I want the earlier higher geared one. Paul.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 27, 2018 21:18:53 GMT
As far as I know there are only 2 cams one LH and one RH! I have a 1976!! box with the much earlier piston and tube and a totally different front plate so that is 3 that I know of! there would seem to be a mixture of vintages of spool assemblies but only one Cam and Rocker.
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Post by nz on Feb 28, 2018 19:22:52 GMT
Yes, all the internals look the same. The '61 housing is slightly different around the top area where the 1/2"slot is. It has a small cut-out portion. Something I've noticed when re-sealing my boxes...when I tighten up the 2 spool halves prior to inserting the 4 pins, the O ring gets mangled. The male spool half hits directly on the O ring and tends to ball it up. Lots of assembly lube, but no good. I note that my unmolested broken casing box still worked well, but upon stripping, I noted the O ring was destroyed. Paul.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 28, 2018 21:33:44 GMT
The top housing/cover has has a few changes as I said Paul each time an improvement, the casing are swappable BUT the front plates are different between the old and newer boxes so beware of that! if you are having problems with the Spool outer O rings? there are two thicknesses if you get them wrong you cant slide the spool into the casing without bu**ering up the O ring no amount of lube will help.
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Post by djm16 on Feb 28, 2018 22:47:56 GMT
If you wanted to consider having your original PSB rebuilt well, then you could send it to the retired Rover specialist we have in Perth WA. My rebuild cost $700, so he is not cheap. But in the long run it might save you a lot of trouble. Mail me if you are interested.
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