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Post by enigmas on Mar 1, 2018 11:43:30 GMT
Surfing the WWW I came across this youtube video by chance. Essentially it's a guy doing a DYI front wheel alignment using a length of string. The commentary is a bit quirky (and so is the spelling) but I believe the method is valid as it effectively aligns the front and rear wheels ensuring that they are parallel. It wouldn't be too difficult to fabricate a more substantial jig or frame for the string to improve the tension. The cars 'track' front and rear would need to be the same though or wider at the rear to ensure the rim edges remain parallel. m.youtube.com/watch?v=P6EllJTMrZs
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 1, 2018 12:20:20 GMT
They have been watching me Vince I remember my Dad doing the same thing when I was a nipper!!
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Post by ozriderp5 on Mar 2, 2018 19:54:18 GMT
I've used this method for years to align the rear wheel on a bike, simple and effective.
I might give it a go on the Rover to centre my steering, currently I can turn further left than I can right.
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Post by enigmas on Mar 2, 2018 22:15:56 GMT
Seems like a good idea Oz. Interesting, not all wheel alignment places bother to check parallelism with the rear wheels...so your car's steering oddity is not unusual.
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Post by ozriderp5 on Mar 2, 2018 23:23:28 GMT
Seems like a good idea Oz. Interesting, not all wheel alignment places bother to check parallelism with the rear wheels...so your car's steering oddity is not unusual. Mine has only been an issue since I put a MK2C steering box in, much lighter steering but must be a different centre setting.
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Post by enigmas on Mar 3, 2018 2:59:41 GMT
Seems like a good idea Oz. Interesting, not all wheel alignment places bother to check parallelism with the rear wheels...so your car's steering oddity is not unusual. Mine has only been an issue since I put a MK2C steering box in, much lighter steering but must be a different centre setting. That shouldn't really affect anything unless the pitman arm was fitted a spline out.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 3, 2018 10:50:12 GMT
Seems like a good idea Oz. Interesting, not all wheel alignment places bother to check parallelism with the rear wheels...so your car's steering oddity is not unusual. Mine has only been an issue since I put a MK2C steering box in, much lighter steering but must be a different centre setting. I am not trying to teach my Granny how to suck eggs Paul trying to help but make sure the link rods are equal settings as per WS manual also the track rod before you do any tracking if not you will have unequal locks, the box center is what it is the same on all PS boxes as the cams are all the same! keep at it I am sure you will get there
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 3, 2018 10:52:28 GMT
Mine has only been an issue since I put a MK2C steering box in, much lighter steering but must be a different centre setting. That shouldn't really affect anything unless the pitman arm was fitted a spline out. Cant happen Vince it can be 90 degrees out or 180! if 90 you will certainly have more lock one way Roughly 1.5 turns and the Pitman should be pointing away from the steering shaft in other words straight ahead!
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Post by ozriderp5 on Mar 3, 2018 11:13:59 GMT
Comparing both boxes side by side the pitman arm sits in a different place, no adjustment.
In reality it will be a relatively small adjustment on the steering rod ends.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 3, 2018 18:33:54 GMT
If both boxes are correctly centralised Oz the Pitman Arm will be in the same place the Cam and Rocker Shaft are the same as Vince says the only thing that would make them different is a bodge on the Pitman Arm?
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Post by ozriderp5 on Mar 5, 2018 3:00:47 GMT
If both boxes are correctly centralised Oz the Pitman Arm will be in the same place the Cam and Rocker Shaft are the same as Vince says the only thing that would make them different is a bodge on the Pitman Arm? The replacement one was a reco, one of them must have been out.
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Post by enigmas on Mar 5, 2018 5:11:59 GMT
Oz are you referring to a manual or power steering box?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 5, 2018 8:35:35 GMT
I wondered the same vince as the only box I can think of is the manual one that had two ratios! so different inner column's?
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Post by ozriderp5 on Mar 6, 2018 4:55:36 GMT
Oz are you referring to a manual or power steering box? Manual, Apparently they change the ratios in the MK2c box to make the steering lighter.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 6, 2018 8:35:44 GMT
Oz are you referring to a manual or power steering box? Manual, Apparently they change the ratios in the MK2c box to make the steering lighter. Yes they went from 17.6-1 to a 20.3-1 whichever one they should be equal within a bit either lock, sounds like you need some Power Steering
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Post by enigmas on Mar 7, 2018 0:24:24 GMT
Oz are you referring to a manual or power steering box? Manual, Apparently they change the ratios in the MK2c box to make the steering lighter. PM sent.
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Post by Warwick on Mar 9, 2018 22:20:19 GMT
They have been watching me Vince I remember my Dad doing the same thing when I was a nipper!! Me too.
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Post by Sam Bee on Oct 1, 2020 19:04:26 GMT
I am preparing to put up my track rods, with 6 new ball joints. I have found the recommended initial length setting for the track rod but a fruitless 30 minutes search of THE BOOK leads me to ask for a pointer to the setting length of the 2 side rods, please.
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Post by 3litrekiwi on Oct 2, 2020 4:08:30 GMT
I don't know whether this is the approved method but I seem to recall a post from Vince that I followed that went something like this:
Before you start, get the ride height correct, this is outlined in the WSM.
Set the steering box to dead centre by going from lock to lock, marking a reference point on the column housing with some masking tape and a pen and working back and forth to find the centre of the steering box.
Set the steering wheel so that it is in the straight ahead position. Remove the wheel and move it relative to the column spline unless you luck in and it was correct to begin with. Mine wasn't.
Check the drivers side wheel by running a string line from the rear wheel and adjust the track rod so that the steering box is straight ahead and the drivers side wheel aligns to the string. This is your only real reference for the tie rod length, steering box arm straight ahead, drivers side wheel straight ahead.
Rover in their wisdom made the threads in the ball joints both right hand so the best you can get is within one thread pitch.
To adjust the length, one of the ball joints needs to be removed from either the steering arm on the spindle or the end of the arm on the steering box. It sounds like yours may be disassembled anyway so this could be a bench job. Get the setup correct and then set the tie rod so that it is nicely symmetrical and drops into the tapers.
Make the other tie rod the same, assemble both so they are snugged into their tapers with the nuts nipped up. Then set the toe in so that the passengers side wheel is straight ahead. I did this with the string line and as the toe is zero plus or minus 1/16" I've left it as near to zero as I can using the string lines.
During the whole process it is important to keep an eye on the position of the steering wheel in case you move it without realising.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 2, 2020 9:06:45 GMT
They are in the WSM and the lengths have to be spot on to avoid tyre scrubbing. Mine were miles out after incompetent tracking by a number of garages who adjusted others instead of the centre one. The measurements in steering sections. H4 & J9
Set centre rod to 24.25"
Set both outer rods exactly equal so that wheels are parallel - they should be 608mm on P/s cars, 616mm man. Ball pins must be vertical & central Check there are same number of turns from centre to both full locks
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Post by Sam Bee on Oct 2, 2020 21:49:32 GMT
Thanks chaps. I already found the 24.25" for the centre track rod. Seems odd that there is no guidance to set the two outer rods so will proceed as suggested. There must have been a figure they used at Solihul because surely they would not have gone through the fag of individually setting up each car as you describe? I have a friend with all the gear and expertise for setting up the front end correctly.
Yes, mine has been subject to a complete strip-down and renovation.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 2, 2020 22:04:27 GMT
Thanks chaps. I already found the 24.25" for the centre track rod. Seems odd that there is no guidance to set the two outer rods so will proceed as suggested. There must have been a figure they used at Solihul because surely they would not have gone through the fag of individually setting up each car as you describe? I have a friend with all the gear and expertise for setting up the front end correctly. Yes, mine has been subject to a complete strip-down and renovation. ? See H4 & J9 - outer ones are 608mm as mentioned in my answer
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Post by Sam Bee on Oct 3, 2020 12:12:53 GMT
Phil, 606mm is about 24.25", the track rod dimension. Sorry but we seem to be at cross purposes so have added a photo. The two outer steering rods which I am talking about are much shorter than that, as illustrated, which is what I am asking about. Am sure that in the distant pasted I have seen the set length quoted, but the source I cannot recall?
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Post by 3litrekiwi on Oct 3, 2020 19:42:20 GMT
If you follow the process I outlined, no measurement will be needed. Once the drivers side wheel is set to straight ahead with your steering box centred, you effectively have a setting jig for the tie rods. It should be possible to measure the distance between the hole centres by placing a ball joint in each taper and either measuring the gap between the ends of the forgings where the rod screws in or the centres of the threaded spigots.
Alternatively, if the ball joints are set as best as possible to 90 degrees, assemble the tie rod and do the final adjustment by trial and error on the car which will be necessary in any case. Both tie rods can be set to the drivers side and the passengers side simply moved over once set, this is logically the first one to do.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 3, 2020 21:07:42 GMT
I did this years ago and I cannot find where I found the right answer but its in the WSM somewhere! Its actually an alternative way to Kiwi's. The key point being the 2 shorter out track rods with ball joints vertical must be EXACTLY the same length. This is achieved by setting the centre TRE to the specified length and when the steering is dead straight ahead and the front wheels exactly parallel adjusting both outer track rods equally both to drop into the steering links without moving the wheels.
It is so easily possible to set the front wheels parallel when straight ahead with the outer track rods at different lengths but if they are then one tyre will scrub when not at straight ahead - I know this because the outer edge of a good tyre scrubbed out in 300 miles after the local garage reset the tracking correctly at parallel but buy adjusting an outer track rod by disconnecting one end instead of just undoing the locknuts of the the centre rod and turning which take only minutes. This basic error shortened that rod by 1/4" compared to the other side thus upsetting the Ackermann angle which is only relevant and key when the wheels are not straight ahead.
Setting of the wheels parallel must have the car standing on the level on all wheels and cannot be done accurately by eye so must be measured.
Since this poor effort which may have been 20 years ago I have always set the tracking on all our classics myself using a light alloy trammel bar I bought from Frosts (imported from the USA)
I will measure my outer track rods on both our P5s tomorrow if I can
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