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Post by Sam Bee on Oct 3, 2020 21:32:13 GMT
Thank you both, much appreciated.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 4, 2020 6:13:45 GMT
150mm between centres - I found my record. It was 15 years ago! This is the inner locknut measurement which I have just remeasured to confirm. Its same on both our P5 and P5B
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Post by enigmas on Oct 4, 2020 10:11:10 GMT
How about adding some photos to the exercise Phil...it'd be a very useful instructional guide.
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Post by Sam Bee on Oct 4, 2020 11:20:03 GMT
Thanks Phil, appreciated. In fact I have just found reference to it being in the 1960 issue WM, but obviously not carried over to future editions. The figure quoted is 5 51/64" (pedantic - no kidding, as near as dammit 5 7/8"!), which is very close to your actual measurement.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 4, 2020 11:21:49 GMT
I do not like the photo attachment facility on this board. The diagrams in the WSM are clear
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 4, 2020 11:24:05 GMT
Yes it is pedantic and I am not sure its possible to be that accurate or is required anyway! I must have obtained my measurements from somewhere. It is hardly surprising few are aware of it!
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Post by djm16 on Oct 4, 2020 11:36:16 GMT
I had a related experience with a tyre centre setting the tracking on my P4. He looked at my short steering links (not the track rod) and asked "how am I supposed to adjust those?". I had replacements from Wadhams which were threaded rather than the original one piece solid, and I had set them each to 12" and welded them in place exactly so that an incompetent tracking operative could not screw up the Ackerman angle. Incidentally, I also had him gently lever the front two wheels while the car was up on the hoist to see how much play there was in the front suspension, and to allow an extra mm or two of toe-in so that with the car in motion they came out to near enough parallel.
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Post by enigmas on Oct 4, 2020 12:56:32 GMT
I do not like the photo attachment facility on this board. The diagrams in the WSM are clear OK!
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Post by Ken Nelson on Oct 4, 2020 15:43:21 GMT
As Phil said above, it is impossible to measure the steering links accurately down to the 64th of an inch from locknut to locknut! I'm aiming for 150-152mm on both sides (5.91-5.98")on each side. 5-51/64" is 5.80 inches or 147.3 mm, and 6" is 152.4 mm, so 150 mm seems appropriate to aim for. I have also ordered a Gunson Trakrite wheel alignment checker to use after all my measurements are set. Hopefully the car will stay straight after all this. The steering otherwise feels quite nice with the Volvo box and has equal turning circles both left and right. I'll report back later again.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 5, 2020 5:03:42 GMT
If the position of the Volvo box is slightly changed then one or both the rods may have to be shortened or lengthened . Keep an eye out for tyre scuffing
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Post by 3litrekiwi on Oct 5, 2020 6:22:25 GMT
If we assume that the ball joints need to be centred so that there is equal movement as they tilt in use then given the threads are both right hand, the nearest it is possible to get is within one thread pitch or one revolution of one of the ball joints.
Every other car I have owned has had a pair of left and right hand threads on the tie rods and these can be adjusted to any length very accurately. Either Rover tapped the joints almost to perfection, also the threaded rods so that the length is spot on once the appropriate position is found, or they didn't consider it needed to be very precise.
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Oct 5, 2020 8:10:48 GMT
Maybe for cross plies it didn’t matter so much?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 5, 2020 8:36:38 GMT
The Rover TREs had a centre spot underneath to measure and they specified the joint must be vertical. Nevertheless 1/64" is unachievable in practice.
As X plies deform less and wear more quickly than radials edge scrubbing especially if only with one wheel when rods are unequal will be more so.
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Post by djm16 on Oct 5, 2020 11:48:44 GMT
If this is what you are getting, don't waste your money!
I speak from personal experience.
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Post by Ken Nelson on Oct 6, 2020 13:20:06 GMT
Well, you may be right about the Trakrite device, but I guess I decided I had to find out for myself. I have read quite a few good reviews, so I'll let you know what I find.
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Post by Sam Bee on Oct 10, 2020 17:39:40 GMT
Further to the conversation of the 4th October on here about rod settings I have set up my outer steering rods, using NOS ends that I have had on the shelf for many years but the original rods and lock nuts. I was aiming for about 5.8 ins, or 147 mm for those using Bonaparte's measure. Blow me down but when I had set up the first one and I set my electronic vernier to fractions unbelievably it showed 5 51/64. I set up the second with the same result! I do wonder if that is what they did at the factory, simply measured a finished example, and it would explain the very odd fraction. Do not forget that they were engineers used to working to thou' of an inch. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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Post by Ken Nelson on Oct 10, 2020 21:17:07 GMT
Wow Sam, what a coincidence (or divine provinence)! I just took my Volvo conversion 3-litre out for another test drive and the new steering box feels great. Slightly more effort needed in parking (not a problem though) and much better feel and firmness on the road. Turning circle seems about as before, and while I'm sure the location of Pittman arm is not exactly the same as before, it seems reasonably in close proximity. Both outer steering rods are equal at 5-15/16" from nut to nut, and the track rod is about 24-1/8" between TREs with a rough measurement of 0º toe-in (+/- 1/4" as best I can tell with a tape measure). The car drives fine, but does have a slight tendency to 'drift' to the right (on right side driving USA roads) when I take my hands off the wheel. Does this give anyone an idea of whether toe-in may be too far in or out?
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Post by enigmas on Oct 10, 2020 22:54:13 GMT
Ken the car is simply following the camber of the road. Roads are usually constructed slightly convex...so that rain water drains to the outside edges of the bitumen.
* Or you have a dragging PS front brake caliper.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 11, 2020 6:25:18 GMT
Try 1/8" Toe in or even parallel. Is the box centred correctly at its staic point so full lock both sides are equal turns?
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Post by Ken Nelson on Oct 11, 2020 14:18:54 GMT
Thanks Phil and Vince. Brake calipers are both free and not dragging. The box is centered correctly. I might try just bringing toe-in slightly more to see how it feels. It may be the camber of the road, although my modern cars seem to have less "drift" to them-perhaps not a fair comparison though.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 11, 2020 14:41:05 GMT
It should keep on a straight line without pulling some of our roads have excessive camber which does not really affect much on the steering front. Try driving the wrong side of the same road to check your theory if you dare and its safe!
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Post by Ken Nelson on Oct 27, 2020 13:14:22 GMT
I have purchased a Gunson Trakrite alignment checker and used it to adjust toe-in hopefully correctly. The car now tracks better, although does tend to follow the camber of the road slightly in either direction (ie I tried driving on the 'wrong' side of the road as well as the 'right' one). All in all it seems to drive well for 54 year old technology, and the Volvo 164 PS box is a clear improvement over the original Rover setup.
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