What needs to sorted out is why there is such apathy amongst the membership of a club with so many members, I know that some are from other countries ie not the UK but never the less there a lot that live here in the UK. I was in contact with David (admin) recently and he said the Saab club had a very active membership who were ready to take part in club activities. Is the Rover club just a talking shop for online advice and only to be used by the same people all the time because that's the way it would appear to be at the moment.
As for Gaydon I only used it as an example there are other places of equal merit and interest I'm sure.
I know i am still relatively a youngster in this club compared to many others David so i put alot of it down to costs involved, distance travelled and no disrespect to anyone but age will deffo factor in to it too as some folk may just be limited to where they can travel to on a daily basis. I know if i go anywhere i have to make sure ive got my meds with me and my name is written in my collar incase i get lost ( LOL ) or something else.
I would image too alot of owners would not to drive their cars too far either. Its all swings and roundabouts these days and will always be a difficult task organising a meet of any kind. With all the new H&S rules which have took over the world its alot more bother these days to organise an event without being sued by someone.
I haven't replied earlier as I'm P5-less so my attendance wouldn't increase the numbers of exhibitors, although it did sound like it had the potential to be an enjoyable couple of days.
I concur with some other comments on here about the general scarcity of P5/P5Bs at shows; I hardly ever see any at those that I attend, either as an exhibitor or simply a visitor and, if I do, it's often a sole example, most likely a P5B. Why, I've no idea. There often aren't many P6s for that matter but I do see P4s which, considering they're the oldest by some margin, isn't what I'd expect.
I'm not suggesting it's applicable to P5 events but I do sometimes wonder whether some of the restrictions being placed on organisers and thus exhibitors is making people less inclined to exhibit in general. I certainly do it less than I used to, finding some of the arrival/leave stipulations quite restrictive (but I understand why they're in place), poor traffic management resulting in excessively long delays leaving (ie on one occasion queued for hours), one of my cars being damaged by somebody with a bag (accidentally) scratching a door as they walked past, people (often with bags, buckles etc) leaning on it to have photos taken. I'm quite happy if people ask, or children etc want to sit in a car and would willingly facilitate that but some (a small minority) don't seem to have much respect for other people's property.
I've organised, or been involved in, a number of shows/events and agree that it can be a fairly onerous, often thankless, task so I'd always support organisers, who are volunteers after all, wherever possible - it's difficult enough trying to organise a local event, a national one is a different matter altogether. I suspect that the distances involved and associated accommodation costs etc might be a factor in the attendance at national events and people of working age might not be able to spare the time for a car event, whereas that might not be an issue for those who are retired. However, that means the average age of exhibitors increases
Have we ever undertaken a survey of the ages of P5 owners; I suspect it might be over 21
Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 10, 2019 10:08:23 GMT
It's very disappointing that the apathy of P5OC members generally seems to be deepening and things have changed so much.
I also a member of the P4 Drivers' Guild and the Rover Sports Register. The RSR annual rallies have clashed with our annual Ireland tour in the last 8-9 years but I understand these are reasonably well attended.
The P4DG annual rallies are always well attended even if the weather is not so good (as it often is in early May). A local offshoot have also done a rally at East Kirby Aviation Museum (Lincs) for the past 25 years in mid July which grew to have a very big attendance. All other marques were encouraged. Lack of younger organisers and the decision of the ageing charity trustees not to open up specially on the Sunday moved it to a Saturday 2 years ago. There was a less structured format too ie NO BOOKING. Given that many younger owners have other commitments on a Saturday these went very well indeed but again the poor weather (unusual) meant this year's attendance was well down but still not disappointing. I am not certain this will now go ahead next year either.
Both the P4DG and RSR have a lot of ageing members but also are gaining younger ones. The odd thing is that only a few P5s turn up to these - perhaps a dozen or so. I see very few P5s at local general car rallies either and rarely any on the road.
So what do all the P5OC & forum members want? What do they actually do with their P5s (present contributers excepted).
The old forums of both RSR and P4DG are virtually deserted and have been replaced by several very active Facebook groups. It's odd that this forum remains very active and in fact better than than the several P5 FB groups. How many users of this forum are actual club members?
Phil - 1964 P5-Coupe PMB***B & P5B-saloon LHO***L & other classic Rovers & Land-Rovers
Thanks all for your replies. I must admit, considering it is the clubs 35th Anniversary, I was somewhat deflated by the level of apathy.
So I thought I would post a little background.
No one else offered to organise next years National.
So, in the hope of attracting additional members and making the National more interesting, the plan was a Morgan factory visit on the Friday, Prescott Hill Climb event on the Saturday and Jet Age Museum on the Sunday, but after making enquiries, two of the three places were not suitable for the dates we required.
As I am currently organising the annual SAAB February Stroll to the Helicopter museum, I enquired if they could accommodate us in September. The museum very kindly offered us preferential entry, museum tour with guide and special parking as part of the show, plus a free ride in a Helicopter for one lucky attendee, which to me seemed very generous. Enquiries then took place with Premier Inn and local caravan and camping sites for discounted bookings. Being offered such a package seemed idea and hence why I asked here for feedback.
I must admit I am at a loss as to what members now expect. Maybe it is apathy, but as mentioned, the SAAB February Stroll (probably a cold and wet day with no helicopter rides) I organise will have around 70 in attendance from Wales, southern, eastern and the midlands areas, with no more than a post on Facebook.
As Tonys mentioned, reiterated by yourself, organising an event must be nightmare for the logistics and H&S concerns alone.
Also I wonder, if compared to other similar sized clubs, are there more members of a specific demographic and more scattered location around the UK (and abroad) with the P5 club, hence failing to actually facilitate more enthusiasm?
3. I tried the RSR at a local event this year but found them to be very rude and ignorant ( Sorry Phil as i know your a member of them ) but they were on the day and made no effort at all to welcome me. In fact i over heard 3 of them saying my car should not get an award because i was not a member of the RSR!!!! The whole bloody point in me going to their event ( Paid in advance too and booked in ) was to see if how well i was received as a potential new member albeit they failed miserably on that day at Kemble. At no point either did i expect to win anything but the entire event just felt very very " clicky " to me.
Even when i wrote to the club chairman of the RSR expressing my displeasure and upset all i got was one line which read " we wish you luck in the future " which said it all to me really about how ignorant i found them to be. They came across exactly the same at the recent N.E.C show too.
Obviously the RSR can afford to pick and choose who they want as members these days. LOL.
I attend as many local shows as i can each year with my Aston and my P5B and also my Smart Brabus and all are always received well. I much prefer the mixed car shows too.
I too have also fell foul of ignorant folk who have damaged my car through sheer neglect as they walk by and or organisers cramming cars in too close for comfort which is a recipy for disaster and only ruins the day as your on constant alert with folk around your car. You also get some who think its ok to just get in your car and play with buttons etc without asking which is just totally a no no in my book. I will gladly allow anyone to sit in my cars and have pictures taken as long as they ask first. I also now lock my car and close my bonnet if i go for a walk and often take it in turns with buddies to stand guard on our cars if we do have to go off.
David Those of us who know the club reasonably well know how much work you put to it's running. I thought your offer to organise the national was great and admire the way you have tried to cater for different accommodation needs as a common criticism is the high cost of hotels recommended for the national (this being relative to each persons view). I am, however, surprised that you have got down hearted after only two weeks when nine months before the event eleven people confirmed they were coming. I would have said this was a very good response so far ahead of the event. I personally would like to attend but it is far too early for me to commit. I do hope to decide to go ahead with the rally.
I am disappointed that so many people decided to comment on this forum that it is too far for them. Of course it is too far for some and nice and close for others. That is the way with all national rallies and does not need saying. This is why national rallies move around the country.
Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 10, 2019 17:52:32 GMT
The RSR are the senior Rover club founded 1953! Not that this in any way excuses superior and unfriendly attitudes and I am surprised you, Brendan, encountered it especially from the Chairman who I do know anf often encounter. It probably explains why the P4. P5, P6, SD1 clubs flourished in the 80s/90s.
All clubs car ones or otherwise have their cliques - the P5OC is no exception either and I do know a number of P5 enthusiasts and owners who will not join for the same reason you will not join the RSR. Same with the P4DG.
When I joined the RSR in 1992 with only our slightly scruffy P5B, non-running board cars were placed in a far off corner at the then regional Annual rallies!
However, I am persistent and also now accepted for who I am. I will freely give my opinion welcome or invited or not. They had to let us in in when we bought our P2 4 years later!
We have had problems at some shows - such as few jacking tubes rubbers and wheel centres knicked from the P4 and P5s. Trafficator arms broke off on the P2 and scratches from zips/bags etc. We have also found uninvited people sitting inside leaning on the bodywork, allowing unruly kids to climb onto the running boards and hang fom door handles and wing mirrors. As such we are more selective where we go now.
Facebook groups have an entirely different feel and members. Its SEARCH facility is fairly useless but the pictures are better and plentiful but they can disappear. What you see is entirely controoled by sophisticated algorithms so its weirdly biased to what you view or not. Marques and evem models are too fragmented though and there are several groups for P5s.
From a technical viewpoint forums especially this one are superior. FB is more sociable!
I remain of the opinion that the various model marque clubs should work together far more and ultimately merge. Of course this is only a stop gap till ulitmate extinction as it was for Rover, BMC and BLMC!
None of these clubs would exist however if a few members freely gave a lot of the spare time and that should always be remembered.
A pity about the national, but I would imagine that distance is probably a factor. Phil also has a point about members of the public attending events and not respecting the cars on show. At Cranleigh this year, as I sat behind my car I heard someone trying the door, which was locked. I thought, I won't be doing this again ! My car is too precious to me to have rif raf poking around it and I would rather take her out on a Sunday evening for a leisurely run. in future if I go to events it will be where cars are gathering as a club meeting, rather than a public show. Having said that there will be a South East Rover Rally on the second Sunday of June with easy access from the M23, all Rovers and classic cars welcome, so put it in your diary NOW !
The "graying" of car clubs here in the USA is a problem also, as well as folks waiting until the day of an event to decide to turn out if the weather is good. I belong to MG groups here which are often surviving as city based clubs that combine all post-war MGs into one club. Some problems arise with folks not wanting to drive beyond their city limits as well, with more members trailering cars, especially after now being able to afford to do a concours restoration instead of the "run what you brung" approach many took as younger and less wealthy folk. Still, I think we all just need to keep enjoying our cars as best we can and try to lead by example. The Rover P5 Forum is as excellent as they come, and a real credit to the organizers of it. My continued improvement of my P5 has been greatly facilitated by the Forum and the Club, so even though impossible to attend meets in England I continue to enjoy hearing from you all on the internet. Don't forget the benefit of the "Tom Sawyer" approach also-if it looks like you're having a good time (and I know I am) it will likely rub off a bit on others!
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Dec 10, 2019 20:10:51 GMT
For sure the location makes a huge difference to the attendance at a P5 show! I go back to Brooklands and it was wall to wall with P5's, the show has gone to more remote locations with dwindling numbers so do we put all down to this? the costs come into the equation I am sure for a lot of guys staying over a weekend can be expensive the offset is the company of a great bunch of people at the dinner table, or the Saturday jaunt if you can get there in time! if not you have to leave very early or stay another night. I feel sorry for the regional rep who works hard to organise a show often with little support and it ends up with low entries sometimes the cars are booked in and don't turn up so it can be a thankless task. For me the owners make the show! some will chat all day others ignore the fact you are there for whatever reason! you don't get this at a mixed make show probably due to the general public viewing, I never get tired of "my grandad had one of these" or "I had one as a young man" I am like George I don't like leaving my car at a show and I will ask my neighbour owner to keep an eye on my car, in saying this the only damage I have had was at a club meal (one I am a member of not this one), when I came back to the car there was a deep scratch on the top of the PS wing 2 foot long. I was a member of the RSR and they don't come anywhere to the morals of this club! I will say no more So are the days of a single Marque show limited? I hope not!
Yes, I will be attending the 2020 National Rally at the helicopter museum, probably for the weekend. Nice to see it nearer to home!
I am very disappointed that the 2020 National Rally will NOT be going ahead, I was much looking forward to attending as it was to be held for a change in the South West of the country. I think it would have been a very interesting venue, with many places to visit close by. It is a shame that it has not received much support considering the efforts the organisers have made to put on the event.