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Post by charlie on Jun 21, 2020 21:56:15 GMT
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 22, 2020 9:21:09 GMT
There is a lobbying group called the 'Mobile Fuels Alliance', which was formed a couple of yours ago to make representation to Ministers of State and Government departments on effects of legislation, both enacted and pending, and availability, upon all sections of mobile heritage i.e. maritime, railway, vehicles and aeroplanes, regarding fuel, whether coal, petrol or diesel. I sit on that group (though not representing the road sector). This in conjunction with The Heritage Alliances' Mobile Heritage Advocacy Group, which I am also involved with. The Federation of British Heritage Vehicle Clubs is a member and taking a very active role on our behalf. That said, E10 is coming. However, there are a large number of MPs who have classic cars and there may be some mitigation in the offing. Many of you will be aware that our Chairman has contact with the All-Party Parliamentary Group Historic Vehicles.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jun 22, 2020 10:58:37 GMT
I only use Super unleaded in both my classics so at least i still have 5 more years grace. This E10 crap ive read only currently applies to normal unleaded and some diesel fuel which i dont use.
It wont be long before cars are banned for good albeit i dont plan on being around then. LOL
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 22, 2020 12:05:43 GMT
I am hoping that the electric brigade see the error of their ways (NO WAY our grid could supply all vehicles, not for decades and cost hundreds of billions we do not have) and go for liquid hydrogen. Then no more of a conversion for a conventional engine than to LPG and maintain the existing distribution and service station setup. Seems so logical to me.
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jimbo
Rover Rookie
Posts: 6 
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Post by jimbo on Jun 22, 2020 12:55:33 GMT
Agreed
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jimbo
Rover Rookie
Posts: 6
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Post by jimbo on Jun 22, 2020 12:56:44 GMT
I agree with Sam Bee
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Post by davewright on Jun 22, 2020 13:19:51 GMT
I have seen a lot of ill informed crap about electric cars in Take Five recently and it seems to be moving to the forum. Our grid is currently well below capacity (the peak was in 2006). It would not be a problem if the whole country switched to electric cars today. Of course this cannot happen as it takes time to install charging points. Meanwhile better use of electric storage, including electric cars, means that the grid can store and balance supply much more easily. The biggest problem is that we are being left behind in the world because of people putting their heads in the sand. China is leading the way with cities like Shenzhen converting all their 16,000 buses to electric and cars that do more miles that the ones we are being offered for much less money (and they are good quality nowadays). I would agree that the current batch of electric cars are not perfect but they are developing far quicker than internal combustion engined cars did when they started. They are far better now then they were just a couple of years ago and the development is accelerating. If you want to be better informed about electric cars I suggest you subscribe to the Fully Charged Youtube channel and podcasts and look at their website fullycharged.show/. You may be surprised. |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 22, 2020 14:21:52 GMT
Perhaps but only 2 years ago dire warnings of power outages were given because the grid cannot cope with a bad winter and its lack of resilience was fully shown up last year by the long power outages across the country cause by windfarms cutting out. The street infrastructure both power capacity and space is just not present. Its taken 30 years to half complete the telecom broadband/optic cabling. It will just not happen overnight or anywhere near it.
Battery/Electric is only a short-term stop gap
as is E10
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Post by David on Jun 22, 2020 14:43:24 GMT
For those who may be intrigued by the 'crap' in Take Five, here is one of the articles. Draw your own conclusions. ;-) Much has been reported on electric cars. There is no doubt that at some point in the future an alternative propulsion system, be that electric, hydrogen, solar, wind, wave, nuclear or LPG, will happen But at this moment in time, electric is not the way forward. Even at this level of demand, areas and communities in South America, as reported by the BBC (Are electric cars as ‘green’ as you think? 21st October 2019), have been decimated in an attempt to extract the necessary resources to make electric batteries. And what happens to all these the old batteries and therefore cars, when they fail in around 10 years time? Which brings me nicely on to my final question(s) regarding the ‘carbon footprint’ of cars. If batteries last 10 years and the carbon footprint of manufacturing a new car is estimated at 8 years, that means you only get 2 years of ‘environmentally friendly’ driving. Now add in to this equation, that these 10 year old cars are no longer economical. The environmental cost to recycle, would not be small. So let’s estimate a years worth of carbon footprint for this.
The electricity used over these ten years has to be supplied from somewhere - let’s say another year of ‘footprint’ cost. So we are now down to ten years use of electric car which has cost ten years worth of carbon footprint. Plus of course, we now have all those additional power stations. So, perhaps someone could tell me exactly how this is going to benefit us? |
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Post by davewright on Jun 22, 2020 15:06:16 GMT
And what makes you think batteries only last ten years? Several car manufacturers are now guaranteeing their batteries for one million kilometres. After this the batteries are removed from cars and used as storage. There are also companies recycling 97% of the content of car batteries (aiming to do 100%) so the stuff used to make them only gets dug out of the ground once. Most of the nasty stuff dug out of the ground actually goes to batteries for phones and laptops not car batteries which use much less of the nasty chemicals. IBM have developed a lithium free battery and Samsung have developed a liquid free battery that is much lighter and does not have and fire risk. Things are changing very rapidly. The future is electric. What is not the future is each of us owning our own cars.
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Post by Brendan69 on Jun 22, 2020 18:48:43 GMT
" Crap "!!!!! " Crap in Take 5 " !!! How very dare you my man. LOL
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Post by barryr on Jun 22, 2020 19:03:42 GMT
I agree with you Dave.
Things won't change overnight but they are changing and fast. Electric or possibly hydrogen are the way to go. I think hybrids are the worst of both worlds and are not the right way to go.
I love my cars and bikes and I'm a petrolhead at heart but if I can, I'll swap my daily driver for electric next. I was also disappointed with the article in Take 5 but I appreciate everyone has a point and that the infrastructure is not fully in place yet.
Watching the full charged channel on you tube has some very interesting articles and information on where we are headed. Sweden and Norway are showing the way!
Barry
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Post by bristol406 on Jun 22, 2020 20:11:41 GMT
We wouldn't need a new infrastructure of charging stations if we went the Hydrogen fuel cell route. The existing network of filling stations could dispense Hydrogen instead of petrol/deisel. Some argue that Hydrogen is too dagerous to use as a fuel in cars but that's what they said about petrol. Although they still went ahead and put the petrol tank under the seat !  |
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Post by lagain on Jun 22, 2020 20:31:15 GMT
Some years ago all the roads in my local town were dug up for cable television - it was the future and must have cost a fortune to put in, I wonder what happened to that.
My brother has had 3 electric cars in an attempt to find one that he likes, but all of them have had one thing in common - they go up and down the road a couple of times and the battery is flat, it then takes an age to charge up.
Apparently Shell super unleaded is the highest octane, so lowest E10
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 22, 2020 21:21:18 GMT
Another aspect of hydrogen is that right now one can buy a hydrogen generator to fit under the bonnet, they look to be about the size of an alternator, plus they need a modest container, say one gallon, for water. That is it, power provided by the engine and a top-up of water every day. Said to reduce petrol consumption by up to 30% and diesel up to 50%. They can even be fitted to cars with carburettors with additional 'blow-back protection. Cost a couple of hundred quid plus fitting. Presumably they would also boost a hydrogen powered car thus extending the range.
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 22, 2020 21:45:28 GMT
Perhaps I should have added - 'who is going to have the first hydrogen hybrid P5?'
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Post by Brendan69 on Jun 23, 2020 7:36:33 GMT
Perhaps I should have added - 'who is going to have the first hydrogen hybrid P5?' Looks like you are. |
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Post by charlie on Jun 23, 2020 10:48:04 GMT
I'm glad I'm the age I am if only I could turn the clock back to 1965 I would buy a mk11c coupe brand new tomorrow would try it again in auto and Manuel though, back then I remember getting 4 gallon of petrol 10 park drive and a box of matches with a bit of change from a pound, petrol was 4 shillings and threepence a gallon.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 23, 2020 11:36:04 GMT
I'm glad I'm the age I am if only I could turn the clock back to 1965 I would buy a mk11c coupe brand new tomorrow would try it again in auto and Manuel though, back then I remember getting 4 gallon of petrol 10 park drive and a box of matches with a bit of change from a pound, petrol was 4 shillings and threepence a gallon. I remember those times charlie 5 galls 4 star for a £1 if you shopped around plus Green Shield stamps or you could save up to get something like Place Mats or Glasses or 4 galls of 5 star for £1  |
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Post by davewright on Jun 23, 2020 13:24:52 GMT
People are using cable television for watching tv and for fast internet access.
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Post by davewright on Jun 23, 2020 13:25:33 GMT
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Post by David on Jun 23, 2020 13:43:12 GMT
I did not question the ideology, only the impact this brave new world of electric cars is having, or will have, on our planet.
If questions exists that batteries do not last more than 10 years in a car, find me a 10 year old electric Prius or any other make of vehicle.
Anyway, on a lighter note, this did make me chuckle.
“The growing use of the electric automobile, with its many advantages of simplicity, ease of operation and noiselessness, has resulted in a demand for some means of conveniently charging the batteries.”
Published by General Electrics..... in September, 1910. (Nineteen ten)
I also contacted the author of the second article that appeared in Take Five and I quote: ...sources include a nuclear power plant engineer, a highly reputed engine designer and various professors articles as I do like facts rather than ill-informed opinions.
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Post by charlie on Jun 23, 2020 21:31:26 GMT
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Post by Warwick on Jun 24, 2020 7:46:18 GMT
Interesting article. Unrelated to the topic, but I notice that it includes an example of modern day English. "It is now possible to walk into a Toyota showroom and walk out the owner of a fully productionised hydrogen fuel cell car." |
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Post by Eric R on Jun 24, 2020 9:21:06 GMT
also not connected but its an example of the Americanisation of English, where they keep stumbling on until they think they have covered everything.
Example a few years ago a tram came off the track in Croydon, Surrey and a woman police Inspector was asked what had happened and she replied: "We are looking into the cautionasionality".
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