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Post by charlie on Jun 24, 2020 10:04:43 GMT
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Post by charlie on Jun 24, 2020 12:56:05 GMT
I did not question the ideology, only the impact this brave new world of electric cars is having, or will have, on our planet. If questions exists that batteries do not last more than 10 years in a car, find me a 10 year old electric Prius or any other make of vehicle. Anyway, on a lighter note, this did make me chuckle. “The growing use of the electric automobile, with its many advantages of simplicity, ease of operation and noiselessness, has resulted in a demand for some means of conveniently charging the batteries.” Published by General Electrics..... in September, 1910. (Nineteen ten) I also contacted the author of the second article that appeared in Take Five and I quote: ...sources include a nuclear power plant engineer, a highly reputed engine designer and various professors articles as I do like facts rather than ill-informed opinions.Prius, www.hybridcars.com/toyota-prius-taxi-running-strong-with-600000-miles-and-original-battery/
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 29, 2020 19:05:32 GMT
Back on the hydrogen! Was talking with a P6 mate today who told me that he has contact with a chap who has run a 2000TC on hydrogen for 6 years - just hydrogen, and uses it as his daily driver. Prior to that he was using LPG. He sourced to equipment from a company in the USA. HG is setup is a hydrogen generator operated by an up-rated alternator and with 2 batteries in the boot. There is NO fuel tank in the car. It runs on water which is then converted onboard and gas then immediately fed to the carbs. I have asked for his contact as it sounds fascinating. Solves the E10 problem...!
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Post by Warwick on Jun 30, 2020 14:45:27 GMT
We wouldn't need a new infrastructure of charging stations if we went the Hydrogen fuel cell route. The existing network of filling stations could dispense Hydrogen instead of petrol/deisel. Some argue that Hydrogen is too dagerous to use as a fuel in cars but that's what they said about petrol. Although they still went ahead and put the petrol tank under the seat ! The dangers associated with hydrogen differ enormously from those of petrol. Yes, leaking hydrogen is nowhere near as dangerous as leaking petrol. It's storage that's the problem. It can't be compared with LPG which liquefies easily when compressed to relatively low pressure. You couldn't simply dispense it from existing petrol stations. It would require completely different infrastructure, and very sophisticated engineering controls to be safe for self-service. And while on the subject of petrol stations; the only reason that self-service is allowed is because we've had over a century of experience with petrol. Also, self-service has only been around for less than half that time. If the world was as we know it today, but the internal combustion engine was a new invention, replacing some other form of motorisation, it's highly unlikely that the average person would be permitted to dispense their own petrol. Back on the hydrogen! Was talking with a P6 mate today who told me that he has contact with a chap who has run a 2000TC on hydrogen for 6 years - just hydrogen, and uses it as his daily driver. Prior to that he was using LPG. He sourced to equipment from a company in the USA. HG is setup is a hydrogen generator operated by an up-rated alternator and with 2 batteries in the boot. There is NO fuel tank in the car. It runs on water which is then converted onboard and gas then immediately fed to the carbs. I have asked for his contact as it sounds fascinating. Solves the E10 problem...! Sorry Sam, but it's totally impossible and these things are a con. They've been around for decades. It's similar to a perpetual motion machine, in that it doesn't fit the fundamental laws of physics. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put in. It's akin to standing on a skateboard rolling down a hill and expecting to gather enough speed to go up the next hill, which is higher. You couldn't even get to the top of an identical hill. Besides, you could only generate hydrogen fast enough by electrolysis to run a tiny engine, using any system that would fit in a car.
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 30, 2020 16:01:31 GMT
No need to be sorry for I am sceptical too. Threw it in as a bit of a wind-up, for amusement to see others views. However, my intrigue is with the claim of this P6 chap who may well have cracked it - we shall see! He is apparently not a member of any car club. What is now available in three production cars on sale is a liquid hydrogen fuel cell used to generate the electricity to power an electric car.
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Post by charlie on Jul 1, 2020 9:24:14 GMT
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Post by bristol406 on Jul 1, 2020 10:17:43 GMT
Interesting article Charlie. We have to burn fossil fuels to make the Hydrogen and we have to burn fossil fuels to charge the batteries. Apart from maybe less urban air pollution, niether solution is ideal. Electrolysis of water to produce Hydrogen using renewable energy would be okay if we ever get there. We need a scientific breakthrough, probobly in the nuclear fusion area but they have been trying for a long time now !
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Post by Warwick on Jul 1, 2020 14:13:26 GMT
No need to be sorry for I am sceptical too. Threw it in as a bit of a wind-up, for amusement to see others views. However, my intrigue is with the claim of this P6 chap who may well have cracked it - we shall see! He is apparently not a member of any car club. What is now available in three production cars on sale is a liquid hydrogen fuel cell used to generate the electricity to power an electric car. The same for the P6 guy, Sam. It's not one of those things waiting to be solved. It's just physically impossible. It's like mounting a fan on the back of a yacht and pointing it at the sails. It doesn't matter how big or efficient that fan is, the sails may fill but the yacht won't move. The P6 owner is either delusional or dishonest. People have been trying to do this for decades, and haven't succeeded. It's not for want of trying. It's just impossible. My concern with hydrogen car safety is that to get any sort of range from the vehicle, you must store enough of it on board. Unlike LPG, it doesn't liquefy when compressed. You need a fuel tank running at around 10,000 psi. To be capable of holding that sort of pressure, a steel or aluminium cylinder would have extremely thick walls and be very, very heavy. So they make them out of carbon composite fibre and resin. A bit like fibreglass but using exceptionally strong carbon fibre. Very, very strong and very light weight. But, it doesn't like being scratched or slightly damaged in any way, or it fails catastrophically. Imagine sharing the roads with cars containing these tanks, driven by the average goose we see behind the wheel of so many cars these days.
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Post by bristol406 on Jul 1, 2020 21:59:29 GMT
Many things that we currently take for granted were, in the past, deemed not possible. There is much energy locked in matter and finding a way of releasing it would solve our energy problems. However, my guess is it will come from fusion research rather than than the guy running his car on water.
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Post by Warwick on Jul 2, 2020 3:22:19 GMT
If they can figure out how to achieve nuclear fusion, it would certainly change things.
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Post by Eric R on Jul 2, 2020 6:35:54 GMT
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jul 2, 2020 7:20:26 GMT
Time was when you had to buy your petrol from a pharmacy or chemist! If you can remember that Eric you don't show your age
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Post by bristol406 on Jul 2, 2020 9:45:43 GMT
It would be some pharmacy if they could provide enough petrol to fill up a P5 tank
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Post by Warwick on Jul 2, 2020 13:02:18 GMT
Time was when you had to buy your petrol from a pharmacy or chemist! And that time will probably return, Eric. Perhaps not from a pharmacy, but from a hardware shop. When I was a kid, you bought kerosene (paraffin?) from a petrol station, dispensed from a bowser, like the petrol. It was used in room heaters, old tractors, and old stationary engines. And if you go back a bit earlier, refrigerators. It was cheaper than petrol. Now you can only buy it in 1 or 2-litre bottles, or 20-litre drums, from the hardware. As electric cars become the norm in coming decades, only people like us with old cars will need petrol. No more petrol stations.
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Jul 2, 2020 14:24:22 GMT
Bunnings will probably stock it for a while, until they get too expensive. “Bunnings! Lower prices are just at the beginning!”
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Post by Warwick on Jul 3, 2020 14:35:18 GMT
I saw a 20L drum of kero in Bunnings last year for $80. It was once cheaper than petrol. Anyway, the best solution to the problem will probably be to buy a Tesla from the wreckers (breakers?) and do a drive-train swap.
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Post by Sam Bee on Jul 3, 2020 16:38:33 GMT
Warwick, that sounds even more improbable than the hydrogen route. Incidentally, they have a hydrogen powered train on trial in Germany and one in Britain soon, plus excavators, trucks, buses and aeroplanes (Boeing fitted a B737 on one side for trial). It is coming, I am convinced. And the penny will drop soon that Lithium is a finite and rather expensive material with the largest deposits in China, if you get my gist; and if we use it up an road vehicles how do we continue to power mobiles and laptops which really do need it, at least for the foreseeable future methinks?
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Post by Warwick on Jul 6, 2020 13:31:46 GMT
Sam, I've added a smiley face to my post, as I should have done initially. I was jokingly saying that the answer to powering our P5s in the future would be to replace the engine and gearbox with the drive-train and battery from a wrecked Tesla.
I agree entirely with your comments about hydrogen power for trains and heavy vehicles, etc. It is its use as a fuel for cars and other relatively small road vehicles that troubles me. It would be too difficult to adequately protect the fuel tank in a major collision. To get any sort of practical range from an acceptable size tank, it would need to be stored at around 10,000 psi. That's a bomb, even if it was holding compressed air.
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Post by David on Sept 16, 2020 15:05:19 GMT
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Post by Warwick on Sept 17, 2020 14:33:19 GMT
I presume that's based on the CO2 emissions associated with producing the electricity to feed the grid. And that would be true. But if it's solar power feeding the grid, it's a different story.
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Post by charlie on Dec 5, 2020 9:51:49 GMT
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Post by charlie on Feb 25, 2021 20:32:18 GMT
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