Power Steering Fluid - Dexron?

[Welsh Warlock]

I have just replaced the PS pump and was about to refill the reservoir and bleed when I realised I don't have enough of the Gearbox Ford MC12 ?? to refill it.

I do have plenty of the Dexron type fluid so is it OK to use Dexron in the PS system?

I can't think of any reason why not but thought best to check.

Also, I've connected the pipe from the steering box to the pump but don't remember seeing any seal or washer - should there be one or does it not require one on that fitting (like brake unions?)

Advice much appreciated

TIA

[lagain]

There are no seals or washers. I replaced my hoses last year and it was difficult to get them to seal totally, made worse by the thread on the hose to pump not being cut properly. If you do not know the age of your hoses it might be a good idea to replace them, it is very messy if they burst.

Cannot advise on the fluid but personally I would not mix the two. I assume that the Ford fluid is the same as Castrol TQX, which I use and is readilly available on ebay. It may be OK to use Dexron in the PAS system, others may know.

You need to check the fluid level once she is running. The system is self bleeding, but the fluid level in the reservoir will go down.

[Sam Bee]

Do NOT use Dexron. Use TQF or ATF.

[Welsh Warlock]

Dec 28, 2020 17:09:10 GMT lagain said:

There are no seals or washers. I replaced my hoses last year and it was difficult to get them to seal totally, made worse by the thread on the hose to pump not being cut properly. If you do not know the age of your hoses it might be a good idea to replace them, it is very messy if they burst.

Cannot advise on the fluid but personally I would not mix the two. I assume that the Ford fluid is the same as Castrol TQX, which I use and is readily available on ebay. It may be OK to use Dexron in the PAS system, others may know.

You need to check the fluid level once she is running. The system is self bleeding, but the fluid level in the reservoir will go down.

Thanks for the reply.

I had all the high pressure hoses made up by a local hydraulic specialist and replaced them in 2007 so I know they are good. At the time I didn't replace the low pressure hose but it recently started to leak and when I tightened the hose clip the leak got worse suggesting a brittle pipe. I therfore bought a new piece (About £6 a metre from Pirtek) and fitted it.

I was also replacing the pump as the power steering was intermittently not working at slow revs when manoeuvring, just when you need it most, and it was difficult getting the car reversed back into the garage.


sam Bee - I know that non Dexron is advised for non reconditioned BW35 gearboxes as it degrades the clutch bands but why not in the power steering?

[enigmas]

I've used Dexron ATF for the P5B power steering pump and box in my MK3 P5 (V8 hybrid) for the last 28 years with absolutely no issues. It's not as though there's any friction material incorporated in the pump or box that's likely to slip. The early UK built BW35s are another matter due to the type of friction material originally used.

[Phil Nottingham]

Dexron fluid is quite OK as it is solely used to protect the bands and clutches in some auto boxes. Using it auto boxes that should not have it in will damage them. It is quite safe in power steering systems as they have no bands or clutches.  

The only reason it uses the same ATF as the box ie non Dexron is to avoid confusion

The HP unions on the power box relay on the taper fitting on the end of the union so no seal is required

[johnwp5bcoupe]

Any ATF fluid will do

[Welsh Warlock]

Thanks all for your input.

I spoke to "eightofthem" Andy yesterday who has rebuilt many of the BW35's in our cars and he confirmed that it might be marginally better to use the mineral fluid as it remains more viscous and marginally less likely to leak but otherwise no reason.

Thanks Phil for confirmation on the HP union. I had already connected it and it was a B****r to get in so I didn't want to undo it again if I didn't have to.

Also I understand from Andy that Comma has changed the formulation of their "non Dextron" ATF and now it no longer says the "ESP M2C-33F/G " on the label nut simply says "Suitable for older vehicles". Andy says he contacted Comma who confirm it is no longer Dexron free and therefore no longer suitable for vehicles requiring non Dexron fluid. The original formulation has a label with red on it while the new formulation has a label with blue on it.

I just went to my local factors who assured me they had the old formulation on the phone. It was the new formulation so I passed.

I believe Smith & Allen do the correct formulation: www.smithandallan.com/products/transport-gear-and-transmission/2856-smith-and-allan-tranguard-atf-type-f---automatic-transmission-oil---ford-transmission-fluid-m2c-33f-m2c33f-/

I hope this info is useful to someone in the future

[ray]

Interesting comments?

I did put out there a whlie ago that I got Comma "AQF" (With the Red Cap). This is stated as being OK for being used in B/W box's

You can download a data sheet, this shows:-

Product Features:
Handling:
Shelf Life:
 Suitable for Borg-Warner automatic transmissions and
torque converters.

The site is here:-

www.commaoil.com/passenger-vehicles/products/view/189


They do 7 different Auto Fluids, only one is suitable.
cheers Ray

(this is of course only relevant to use in the Auto Box, I 'suspect' the power steering could take any. But if we can get AQF, why use anything else?)

[Welsh Warlock]

Both the new formulation and the old formulation as well as Dexron ATF have red caps.

The one in the pic on the left with the red bit on the label is the correct ESP M2C-33F/G spec ATF. The one on the right is Dexron with the green flash on the label.

The new replacement formula allegedly suitable for older gearboxes has a pale blue flash on the label as I saw in the Motor Factors today. This is the one that Comma told Andy is not suitable for non Dexron applications. Attachment Deleted

[Phil Nottingham]

Dec 29, 2020 18:42:52 GMT Welsh Warlock said:

Both the new formulation and the old formulation as well as Dexron ATF have red caps.

The one in the pic on the left with the red bit on the label is the correct ESP M2C-33F/G spec ATF. The one on the right is Dexron with the green flash on the label.

The new replacement formula allegedly suitable for older gearboxes has a pale blue flash on the label as I saw in the Motor Factors today. This is the one that Comma told Andy is not suitable for non Dexron applications. View Attachment

Useful to know - my rebuilt P5B box must have Dexron 2 and I bought 20 Litres from S & A last year where I buy my 20/50 and EP90GL4 from.

I still have the old Comma AQF for the BW DG in the Coupe so I will order some S & A non-Dexron for future use

[Brendan69]

Dec 28, 2020 17:09:10 GMT lagain said:

There are no seals or washers. I replaced my hoses last year and it was difficult to get them to seal totally, made worse by the thread on the hose to pump not being cut properly. If you do not know the age of your hoses it might be a good idea to replace them, it is very messy if they burst.

Cannot advise on the fluid but personally I would not mix the two. I assume that the Ford fluid is the same as Castrol TQX, which I use and is readilly available on ebay. It may be OK to use Dexron in the PAS system, others may know.

You need to check the fluid level once she is running. The system is self bleeding, but the fluid level in the reservoir will go down.

I used as per what George mentioned above and have had no issues. I buy all my oils from Opie oils.