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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2005 1:08:34 GMT
I bought a P5 that has seen too many mechanics.
I am trying to determine the factory location for the brake servo.The brake servo in my car is located in the right fender above the tire. I do not beleive that Rover would have put the brake servo in that location. I have a LHD, 1963 P5 MK IIASaloon with automatic and air conditioning.
Does anyone know where the servo should be located? I realize that it is complicated since the car is LHD and had a dealer installed ar conditioning system.
Thank you.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 31, 2005 9:56:31 GMT
On RH drive cars its under the inlet manifold - its location is not critical. It should be the antiquated Girling type that is bulky and unreliable in old age. The compact Lockheed Type 7 is much better. I would have thought the proximity of the exhaust would not do the servo rubbers much good if mounted on the other side?
There are some USA members with 3 lires perhaps they know?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2005 12:11:42 GMT
How can I determine which servo I have? I cannot see any markings on it.
There seems to be room under the inlet manifold. I was thinking that inside the wheelwell exposed the servo to the potential of getting hit by debris kicked up by the tires.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 31, 2005 14:51:10 GMT
I agree about the location - the Girling type is quitelarge and has sorts of tubes and appendages on it. The Lockheed is much neater with only a wite plastic rounf air valve about 3" diameter on it.
Can you e-mail/post some pics?
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Post by dorsetflyer on Dec 31, 2005 15:08:09 GMT
This is what the Lockheed Brake Servo looks like. The Girling version has not got the band with adjusting screw around the diameter. From memory there are three connecting pipes to it, and the end plate may be hexagonal in shape. I agree with Phil that it is larger than the Lockheed equivalent. Unfortunately I cannot get to my 3litre at present to take a photo as it's under wraps for the winter. Hope this is of some help.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 31, 2005 15:40:22 GMT
Unfortanetly the Srvo cannot be mounted here on 3 Litres - its virutally impossible to photograph one in situ - the manifols has to be removed to replace it so thats is why its underneath the wheel arch on yours.
I will be removing my 3 Litre engine shortly so I can show you the set up - I can also email you a picture of the Girling type as I hav enot yet worked out how to post pictures here yet!
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Post by dorsetflyer on Dec 31, 2005 16:05:44 GMT
It may well look like this in shape. This installation is in a Humber Supersnipe which uses the same Servo as in the 3litre. Phil you'll have to make it a new year project to be able to load pics on to this site. I thought it was complicated but I find it so easy to do now. The beauty of this you can preview it before you add any script and if you don't get a pic come up then you can abort and start again. In other words NEVER post a reply until you can actually see the pic you want to post.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 31, 2005 18:10:00 GMT
Yes that the Girling Servo as fitted to 3 litres and is easily accessible on the Super Snipe - the complicated gubbins etc is behind and some of it can be seen in your picture.
I perhaps will make it a New Years resolution to learn how to upload pictures - I will remember your tip - thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2006 1:42:04 GMT
My 1965 Mk llc is also LHD with automatic. The servo is under the intake manifold [Westlake] A note in the papers that came with the car said that a previous owner had several servo problems untill he had it replaced with one from a P6. It has worked well for me. It looks similar to the photo submitted by Dorsetflyer but without the band securing the front and rear sections.
I was intrested that your car has air conditioning. I have just installed A/C in my car. Where is your air compressor mounted?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 1, 2006 11:08:41 GMT
Yours therefore has the Lockheed conversion and I have done mine except its a brand new Land Rover type 7. It does therefore appear LHD exports had the same arrangement as the homemarket cars True to my New Years resolution as prompted by Dorset Flyer I attach a picture of my Coupe (it took 10 mins). I will look out my old Servo and post this as well
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2006 13:35:17 GMT
My AC compressor is mounted just below the intake manifold. It sits on a metal platform. It is very tight.
My condensor is in front of the radiator and currently interfers with the grill. The last garage put it in front of the two vertical rods. I'll be fixing the mistake later in the month.. I don't know if the compressor is original but the inside blower/evaporator looks original.
Is you entire system original?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 1, 2006 18:15:03 GMT
This is the other side of a Girling servo fitted as standard to P5's This is its location - the black object on the left is the engine breather
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2006 1:29:13 GMT
Phil,
Thank you for posting the pictures. I definitely have a Lockheed unit. I noticed a bracket behind the steering relay. If I use that bracket, the servo's back will be towards the ending and the servo's small end will be pointing towards the right wheel. Is this the same orientation as your unit? I can't determine the position of the back from your picture.
Thanks,
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2006 4:44:48 GMT
My condenser is right in front of the radiator and behind the vertical rods. I moved the radiator to the rear by bolting it behind the mounting brackets which are bolted to the fenders [wings] The fan is rather close to the radiator but it is working well.
No. None of my system is original Most of the components are from a supplier in the USA who cater mostly to custom and hot rod builders. What is the correct location for the evaporator?
A question for the forum moderator: Is it okay to continue this off subject discussion or should it go on a new thread?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 2, 2006 8:37:49 GMT
Yes thats right - a suitablw bracket and steady rod at the rear end needs fabricating but its not a difficult job. You can see part of my bracket bolted on to the original (the pop rivet holds the bracket for the thin neck of the Lockhead servo.
The removal of the inlet manifold is the tedious job especially if its been glued on with gasket sealant or even worse silicon. Never use anything but the correct paper gasket, greased, on reassembly
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Post by dorsetflyer on Jan 2, 2006 20:16:50 GMT
Well you've certainly got the bug now Phil, there'll be no stopping you now. ;D ;D. By the way if you want to get that old Servo refurbished have a chat with POWERTRACK, it usually takes around a month and looks like a brand new unit when returned. That tatty old one in my pic was the one that failed, so now it has been replaced and the cars braking system is back to normal.
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Post by Ken Nelson on Jan 7, 2006 5:22:41 GMT
Hi all; Just finished reading the threads on A/C and brake servo units. I have a LHD 1966 MkII 3 litre coupe and I had a donor (NADA) LHD 1964 3 litre Saloon that I dismantled for parts. Both had the Girling brake servo under the intake manifold and it looked as per the Humber pictures. Both had leaked internally, and rebuild kits were very pricey and difficult to install. I bought a Lockheed unit from a P6 and installed a bracket for it in the same area. It looked as the picture, except it sealed by twisting front and rear covers apart and didn't have a screw band. It works fine. I had dealer installed A/C in the 1964 and the condensor unit mounted horizontally under the right rear of the car. The evaporator sat on the parcel shelf and was formed to fit the contour of the shelf. The compressor was driven by a double V-belt front crankshaft pulley and mounted at the right side of engine near the generator. Does anyone have any period literature discussing or showing pictures of the A/C units available then? Ken Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 7, 2006 10:30:44 GMT
It sounds like I have mounted my Lockheed replacement servo similarly - the bayonet twist-off type vacuum plate is the earlier version and was superceded by the clamping band which does work just as well.
The Lockheed type does react faster than the Girling particularly when cold and does not suffer from locking up the brakes solid that Girlings are prone to.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2006 14:55:47 GMT
I'm still having trouble understanding the location of the brake servo. I don't get the orientation of the unit and its height. I have a bracket low, under the intake manifold, close to the engine. It looks like the bracket holding the servo in the first picture but it seems too close to the wheel well for the servo to fit. If I mount the servo there it will point towards the right wheel.
Can someone help me better understand the position? Assuming the the servo is an arrow, what direction does it point? Approximately how low is it in the compartment?
Thank you for your patience with my questions.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 7, 2006 16:16:15 GMT
Is it is very low close to the subframe and near the bulkhead - the cylinder (arrow points to the front slightly upwards.
With the engine or intake manifold in place its impossible to see it fully.
As I said earlier I am doing an engine swap so I will post a picture
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2006 20:42:02 GMT
Thank you for the clarification. Now I get it. I look forward to your future picture post.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2006 21:14:59 GMT
are the girling servos prone to locking the brakes up? my brakes keep locking and i intended to change the flexible pipes why do the girling sevos do this? what can be done to check and rectify ? cheers matt
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 7, 2006 21:34:19 GMT
The Girling servs are prone to this but its wel worth cahnging the flexis as thet do collapse internally and its the cheaper option!
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 7, 2006 21:46:47 GMT
???Does this one help?
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Post by Ken Nelson on Jan 8, 2006 1:33:17 GMT
Dear Phil, litho; I mounted my servo exactly as Phil did by fabricating another bracket also. The Lockheed unit is slightly narrower than the Girling and I think I was able to slip the new one in from either above or below without removing the intake manifold, if memory serves me. Interestingly, after a layup of many months I found my brakes locking up with the newer servo also. I solved the problem by replacing the white air filter in Phil's picture which had apparently become clogged enough to delay the pressure release slightly when the pedal was let up. It works fine since! Ken
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