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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2006 21:40:17 GMT
I purchased new brake shoes and they were principly a Land Rover product. However, the box also indicated P5B. Should there be any problem fitting to P5 (3 Litre) or is there a difference somewhere? I would appreciate a view on this question. Tony
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 10, 2006 22:03:24 GMT
All rear shoes for P5 and P5b + later P4 Rears are interchangeable. I was not aware they also fitted Land Rovers as well as these use a different set up although several types were used on both fronts and rears. Certainly my old Land Rover shoes are different and are from the same era as the 3 litre.
Which Land Rover model(s) does the box say they fit. Quite a few P5 engine parts were used on Land Rovers and even some V8 bits but very few others although they may look similar.
It should be readily obvious on comparison if they do fit
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2006 13:57:02 GMT
Unfortunately, I have thrown the box away! Tony
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 11, 2006 16:11:19 GMT
Hope they fit! Unless they are in the wrong box which is always a problem. pity as it could have made sourcing these a little easier!
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Post by lagain on Oct 16, 2006 19:07:30 GMT
RTC 3418
The box has land rover all over it , but does not say for which model. Mine also has an asbestos sticker so they must be quite old. I like to keep enough spares incase I live to 150 ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2006 22:09:07 GMT
After fitting rear brake shoes and carrying out every check I could think of I still had no adequate handbrake. The checks included: Making sure cylinders floated on back plate. Ensuring pistons were perfectly clean with no scouring. New rubbers. Making sure rollers and tappets were the correct way round and clean and greased. Ensure that rear brake mechanism pulled draw link to maximum i.e. end of rollers travel. Make sure adjusters in correct position. Brake drums perfectly clean. New shoes fitted. No trace of oil anywhere. After many attempts taking off drums there was no way the car would pass MOT. (Already failed) Totally fed-up took car for fresh MOT and told my local man that I couldn't obtain adequate rear brakes. The car is now to be tested; on to the rollers and fails. OK I say would you obtain adequate rear brake for me to pass test. Yes they say. This should be most instructional. Car is lifted to about six feet off the ground and wheels are removed together with drums. Told mechanic that cylinders must float on back plate (he had not heard of this). I took manual just in case. Senior man arrives (owner) and removes cover plate to check tappets and rollers. Done that I say to myself. He drops them on garage floor but quickly cleans them and replaces. Drums are checked. Brake shoes are checked. All seems in order. "Been there done all that" I say to myself. Adjusters are tightened hand brake is pulled. They can't seem to suceed. We now have three mechanics and the conclusion is that the brake shoes must be allowed to "bed in". Yes but I do not have an adequate hand brake until they do! How do I pass MOT? Ah but I do. Adjusters are tighened so that you cannot turn wheels but the car can when under power. Found this out at home. Cost me £40 odd quid for MOT and £76 for brakes. Told to pull handbrake when travelling to bed in brakes. Are they right? Just to pile on the agony they managed to scratch drivers front door. Taken to body shop and removed with rubbing compound. No charge! Thank you for comments Tony
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 7, 2006 22:51:47 GMT
Something wrong here - are you sure you have got the shoes on the right way round?
The drums may be oval?
Someone has messed with the linkage.
Linings do require to bed in but should niot take very long - a couple of heavy brake applications should do this initially.
I have regularly said that properly set up(with or without new linings!) the handbrake efficiency should be well in excess of the low MOT standard. You should be able to lock the back wheels and stop the car on it easily from say 20mph
Do not accept second best with brakes - there is no excuse
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Post by harvey on Dec 7, 2006 23:05:26 GMT
If to get the reading to the required standard, the rear brakes are binding, that is a failure in itself. Oval drums can usually be felt through the brake pedal. With all the brakes correctly fitted and adjusted as well as all the linkage set a quick spin round the block should be enough to bed everything in to the point that it can pass the brake test.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2006 13:02:52 GMT
Thanks for your comments that are very much appreciated. I shall persevere with this problem when the roads are dry again. As Phil mentioned has anyone messed with linkeage? Yes it's me! However, I have followed the manual's instructions and the draw link for brake rod pulls tappets and rollers to their maximum. (Seen this by removing rear cylinder cover plate) So did mechanic. Car has travelled 32k miles from new. Could drums be oval? Brake shoes replaced as per picture on this site. Car is little used and I do avoid hills and I do have park facility (Automatic). However, I shall return to this problem and will not be beaten. In conclusion, with all the expertise at garage I am surprised that they also lack the knowledge. Perhaps I am being a little unfair after all the car is 47 years old! Thanks again Tony.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2006 18:09:19 GMT
I too found (for a long time) that I could not obtain what I would call 'a good handbrake' in spite of new shoes, good drums, new handbrake cable and reading the workshop manual and following the instructions to the letter. Then one day it hit me! I had been following the instructions in the Rover P5 workshop manual - WRONG!. My car is a P5B and I realised that the Rover P5B workshop manual SUPPLEMENT has a different setting up procedure. When I followed this to the letter I found that I now have a much better handbrake than I have ever had - result! I must add that my local garage always MOT'd the car and always said that the handbrake was only just legal but it passed the test. Now it's much 'stronger' and I know that I can park the car on my sloping drive with only the handbrake and it WILL hold (just as a comparative test). SO the moral of the story is "P5B handbrake should be set-up as per the SUPPLEMENT not as per the P5 manual" . I hope this info is helpful. Regards Adrian
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 9, 2006 20:32:07 GMT
Subject to Freddy's suggestion which definitetly requires checking I doubt if its oval drums unless its 132k miles?
Try abrading botyh drum and linings with coarse sandpaper - they may have become glazed?
Are the linings asbestos type? Becareful if they are although these are better anyway
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2006 21:58:20 GMT
Thanks Phil and Freddy. Firstly I am 3 litre Mk1 and I have the 3 litre Workshop Manual. No it's definately 32k, I have had the car since 1979 when it had recorded 20k. I am second owner. I rather like the sound of coarse sandpaper. I must say the last time I looked at the drums they were all shiney! Perhaps that is the glazed look you are referring to. The linings are not asbestos, but whatever they are the mask always goes on when I deal with brakes: which is most of the time actually! Nottingham is a little too far for me (Ipswich way) otherwise Phil I could set you the challenge for £76 quid. Regards Tony
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 9, 2006 22:09:43 GMT
My 3 litre had a terrible hand brake when I first had it - although it came with a full MOT, The linkage was partially seized and messed aroun with. It is more complicated than the V8's. Make sure its free at all the compensators particularly the one on the back axle although it was the one fastened to the crossmember at the rear of the subframe that was the cause with mine + a frayed cable + the bent "umbrella stick! It will pull up the car easily from speed now
Even the handbrake lever was bent by someone pulling it too hard.
I did sort it out - I had to as the parking pawl in the autobox had broken (they can easily do so so do not rely on it!).
Shame you are not nearer!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2006 16:20:49 GMT
Just a last few words on the subject. If the handbrake pulls the draw link on both sides to the maximum and holds them there i.e. tappets and rollers are at maximum travel, is it safe to say that handbrake is working satisfactorily? I must add that some eight years ago I stripped all the linkeage i.e. cross rods etc down to bare metal and repainted. Even garage man says its like a new car, but he would say that wouldn't he! Everything greased up all linkeage moving all new stainless split pins. I must have used a couple of hundred since the rods have been off so many times. I've just had a brainwave. The December Mag mentions a technical day on Saturday March 2007 at Gaydon. This sounds like fun. Action: bring car early in morning to be used as guinea pig for rear brakes. All those Rover experts on hand, sounds wonderful. Perhaps I will contact Mr Rigby and ask whether my car could be looked at. I will think about this one. Too cold in garage at present. I will wait until I have had another look. Always nice to hear from you. Regards Tony
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Post by lagain on Dec 11, 2006 19:06:13 GMT
I see a set of rear brake shoes have just gone on ebay for £17 Can't think how I missed them !
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