|
Post by stevem on Nov 19, 2007 21:27:46 GMT
As the wiring diagram in the manual is a bit on the small side and can be a bit difficult to follow, I made the decision to put it onto "Autocad" (nearly finished it now). I assume there's nobody left at Rover to sue for copyright! There are a few terminal markings on Relay 3AW, Control relay 4TR, Relay 6RA and the Alternator 11AC that are difficult to read (these are items 45, 46, 51 & 52 in the manual). Has anyone got a diagram where these are legible? Also, does anybody know of any errors in the diagram as shown in the manual? When the diagram is finished I will save it as a .pdf which can be made available to all. Steve M
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 19, 2007 21:32:13 GMT
There are one or two errors depending on which year model. The W/s manual gives a detailed diagram of the Alternator, regulator connections. Some are critical others are not.
I enlarged mine onto A3 but cannot place my hands on it!
|
|
|
Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Nov 20, 2007 9:02:36 GMT
There's a bit of work in that Steve. Thanks for putting in the effort. Could I have the .dwg file please? That way I can edit it to suit mods on my car. warwick(at)regscom(dot)com(dot)au.
Regards, Warwick.
|
|
|
Post by stevem on Nov 20, 2007 17:12:36 GMT
Warwick Will send .dwg when done (may be a while yet).
At present i am using letters to represent the wire colours as per the diagram in the manual. I hope to do a further copy actually colouring the cables / tracers. Obviously this will be no good for people who are colour blind but may be of use to others.
Phil I have blown up the diagram from the manual to A3 (and beyond) and still cannot read some of the terminal markings.
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 20, 2007 17:42:30 GMT
I will see what I can find to clarify these
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 20, 2007 23:21:28 GMT
Steve I have looked at my diagrams - several. It depends on the age of the print how clear the markings are but the Alternator wiring is as follows. There are also some obvious errors in the circled numbered/lettered Accessory/Coupe pickups which I cannot locate at present! The diagrams differ from Saloons to Coupes and from with cold start, without cold start and then with thief-proof coils. The Thief proof coil wiring is compromised with the Accessory position, if the armoured set up is dispensed with, the wiring can easily be modified to be the same as with the console Ignition switch although some of the wiring colours are different. The bullets are all underneath the back of the steering wheel cowl. This is what I did till I went the whole way and fitted the console ignition switch when the column gave up the ghost as they do. Clockwise from top of components45 - 3AW Warning light relay (circular can)WL = Brown/Black (to warning light) B = E Black (to earth) AL = Brown/yellow (to small warning light terminal on alternator) 46 – 4TR Control (square black or red box)F = Brown/green (to “F-“ terminal on alternator) - = E Black (to earth) + = Brown/purple (to C2 terminal on 6RA) 51 – Lucas 6RA, Field isolating relay(oblong can, circular for modern HD variants and C1/2 & W1/2 are alternate pairs) C1 = Brown (Contact 1) to battery feed W1 = White (Winding/coil ) to Ignition feed C2 = Brown/purple (Contact 2) to “F+” terminal on alternator W2 = E Black (Winding/coil) to earth) 52 11 AC alternator+ = Brown/white – main feed to ammeter AL = Warning light feed to 3AW F+ = positive field terminal to 6RA F- = negative field terminal to 4TR Note to fit a modern regulated alternator – dispense with all units and insulate terminals except the AL and WL cables, which should be joined. The two F+, F- cables at the alternator should also be insulated or dispensed with. The big ammeter cable goes to the big alternator terminal. Good luck
|
|
|
Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Nov 21, 2007 10:58:34 GMT
That's great; thanks Steve. Whenever you are ready will be fine. I'm in no hurry. Have you considered putting each colour on a different layer? It might make it easier if you are trying to trace something to be able to turn off everything else.
Phil, Thanks for the alternator info. That will be very handy. Mine has an alternator installed but I've no idea where the wires go as it is a bit of tangle. I need to tidy it up.
Warwick.
|
|
|
Post by PatMcCoy on Nov 21, 2007 12:49:32 GMT
I have the whole manual on a disc in pdf So when i need to do a job just print page Do job and bin Saves the manual getting dirty
|
|
|
Post by stevem on Nov 21, 2007 18:20:51 GMT
Phil
Thanks for info. These are just the terminal markings that are difficult to read in the manual. Will complete the diagram as per the manual (but with far less crossovers in the wiring) then add any variations for coupe/saloon models plus take-off points.
Mine has the thief proof coil with armoured lead from the ingintion switch to the coil. Not sure where the ballast resistor is, as there is only one lead to the coil via the armour.
I thought when cranking there should be 12V direct to the coil bypassing the ballast and when the key is released from the starting position it would pass via the ballast resistor therefore dropping the voltage slightly on the LV side of the coil. How can this be achieved with only one lead to the coil unless the ballast resistor is under the dash somewhere? Probably a daft question thats been answered before - if so sorry!! Steve m
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Nov 21, 2007 18:31:07 GMT
If you want a copy of the diagram email me and I will send it
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 21, 2007 18:31:13 GMT
No ballast resistor in loom with thief proof coil, predessors to these had pink ballast wire in loom and pre those, the actual separate resistor - coil position being determining factor which one is fitted and also shunt wiring on starter solenoid. These, Cold start warning light apart for very early models, are the main but very important differences in the looms.
As mentioned many times before with starter motors the bypass terminal MAY be crucial when fitting another starter motor or solenoid as its this extra wiring that passes the full 12v to the coil only when cranking The pink resistive wire should not need one as this increases its resistance with temperature, the higher it is the higher the resistance. This resistance increases in its own just by passing current to the coil. This why fitting any old coil may not work very well as they all draw different currents.
The problem these days especially with the thief proof set up is that its likley to have been seriously tampered with by PO's or even worse their garages who should have known better.
By far the best set-up is the earlier separate ballast & solenoid shunt. If the engine is even moderately OK a standard 12v sports coil AND NO ballast will be more than adequate. This is what I have fitted now. No problems at all with this set-up and less to go wrong as well!
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 21, 2007 20:09:41 GMT
It must have been a lot of bother scanning the manuals as they are bound very tightly but its a very good idea.
I have an original full size "dirty" one which stays in the garage for handy reference and a nice clean club half size one for reading indoors before I start anything.
After all these years I still think they, together with a parts list are essential and invaluable whether or not you do your own servicing - even a lot modern mechanics do not understand these cars now, especially in the "throw it away and fit a new one fraternity"
The production of a modern "pdf" wiring diagram by a club member is no mean feat and its this sort of information that should only be available to members and any other persons the originator thinks should receive it.
I think copyright is likely to be still actionable by the holders of the name "Rover" but since the new version is not a copy it would not apply anyway only now to Steve. Perhaps it would be better not to use the trem Rover anywhare on though?
|
|
|
Post by PatMcCoy on Nov 22, 2007 0:11:23 GMT
I dont and if any one wants a copy contact me
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2008 7:44:00 GMT
God bless you Steve & your wiring diagram on PDF!
I've been hoping for a while that someone would have this excellent initiative. Having a British beauty (LHD 1968 P5B coupe) in France can be an expensive nightmare from time to time & is most certainly a no-go when it comes to electrical stuff!!! I hate to say though that my electrical problems started with an unscrupulous mechanic in Bath - Somerset! Does the WD covers what is behind the dash? Right now I need to have the head lights on to be able to use the wipers, whilst it also rains during the day in green Normandie!
Thanks A LOT!
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 1, 2008 10:25:49 GMT
The wiring diagrams beig taken from the Rover ones but corrected and improved do cover all the wiring but only in line drawing form. The wiring on these cars is very basic compared to modern cars - problems always ensue through someone adding and "repairing" parts of the loom suing non-standard cable and inappropriate pickup points
|
|
theroveringmember
Rover Fanatic
P5B Saloon - P4 110 - P6B x2 - 2200TC - 2000TC (S1) 2000SC........How Many Is Too Many?
Posts: 446
|
Post by theroveringmember on Mar 9, 2008 10:54:02 GMT
How does the 'thief-proof' coil work? I have one in my garage but have never really inspected it.
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 9, 2008 11:34:00 GMT
It just an amoured feed to the ignition coil that prevents Hot wiring - they can cause trouble and were never very effective as its dead easy to bypass them. Not many have the original coil now as they have long failed
|
|
|
Post by dorsetflyer on Mar 9, 2008 15:10:40 GMT
It's either a 'museum' piece, or preferably bin it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 5:17:54 GMT
Hi Steve, My 1968 P5B Coupe is LHD, as it suits in France. Do you reckon the WD could be specific for the LHD models? I really need this WD as someone made a mess behind the dash. How can I get it please? Thanks,
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 14, 2008 9:11:37 GMT
Have you a email address??
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 14, 2008 17:17:21 GMT
The diagrams are the same for both LHD and RHD models but adapted to suit particular markets with "add-on" looms like the HRS etc. They all have inacuracies and differ according to build date
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2008 14:38:47 GMT
Have you a email address?? Yes, salut@eim.ae Thanks, JP
|
|
|
Post by Sam Bee on Apr 29, 2019 21:29:22 GMT
I am using this old thread as it refers to the thief proof coil. I have removed mine at the same time as the rest of the loom. I wish to keep the ignition key on the column. The single wire emerging from the security sheathing appears to be yellow, but all the wiring diagrams I can find show three White leads from the switch. Is there a wiring diagram in existence that is specific to the thief proof coil setup?
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Apr 30, 2019 6:01:00 GMT
Only the later handbook has a updated diagram. I have a scan but it will not load on here
The wiring is slightly different. All you need to do is solder a new wire onto the terminal where the yellow one was which then goes to straight to the + terminal of the coil.
This therefore retains the weird accessory set up although this too can be modfied then to operate properly as with the older cars. The P5B/P5 wiring is very simple on all models.
I did the easy mods above but then the switch contacts started playing up as they often do so I fitted the old type switch in the instrument console
|
|
jry
Rover Newbie
Posts: 3
|
Post by jry on May 21, 2020 7:36:19 GMT
Hi, I am new to this forum. I would really like a copy of the P5B wiring diagram as the wiring on my car has been well and truly "played" with and I am keen to get to normal for ease of use.
|
|