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Post by enigmas on Apr 14, 2008 12:05:20 GMT
Not really sure where this page fits, but since it's a V8 it may be of interest to those who have never seen a P76 sedan, although this one is slightly modified. www.webtrade.com.au/p76/NZ/NZ_targa.htm
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Post by dorsetflyer on Apr 14, 2008 14:28:42 GMT
Somewhile back now there was a P76 For Sale on E-Bay over here. Prior to that, the one owned by Lord Stokes also came up for sale and I must I was very tempted, but let it go in the end.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Apr 15, 2008 8:19:15 GMT
A very capable and much-maligned car. It tends to be thought of as Australia's Edsel, but that is very unfair. The car was a lemon, but not because of any design problems. The company that built it had become a lemon and by the time the P76 went on sale the dark clouds were starting to gather over Leyland Australia. It was built by a workforce that could probably see no future and at a time when the oil crisis hit and car companies were suddenly down-sizing their models. Holden soon after dropped their large car and introduced the Commodore (much smaller back then); and Leyland had just released this huge car. But in every respect it out-did the local competition. Lightweight V8, coils all 'round, good ride and handling, big and roomy, modern styling. But the quality control was appalling. Switches that broke, water leaks into the body, etc. If the company hadn't been struggling and the model had survived to its first face-lift and had the QA problems sorted out, it would have been a very good car. Ford weathered the down-sizing and kept the local Falcon the same size and GM-Holden lost sales to it.
You still see the odd one around on the road. There are a couple around here. P76 was the project number and for whatever reason, they decided to stick with it. Funnily enough it is often referred to as a P38 - only half the car it was supposed to be. But then that number got taken up as a Range Rover! I suppose there are those who would say that the early examples of those were P19s.
Anyone interested in the P76 should try to get hold of a book called "A boot full of right arms" by Australian motoring journalist, author and rally driver, the late Evan Green. It covers the exploits of their P76 in the 1974 World Cup Rally through Europe and North Africa. (see page on NZ site via Vince's link above). They won the Targa Florio stage of the rally, hence the name of one of the models. Leyland Australia was dead before the car returned home.
When they were developing the P76, a second project (I forget the number), they had 2 cars running in parallel. Model A and Model B. Two prototypes were developed. P76 was the in-line V8 and straight-6 with rear-wheel drive while P?? Model B was an a transverse in-line V8 and 6 with front-wheel drive.
The P76 test mules were HK, HT and HG Holden bodies with the 4.4-litre V8, transmission and suspension while the front-wheel drive P?? Model B version used an Austin Kimberley 1800 Mk.2 body with the V8 mounted east-west as BMC used to say with a BW35 installed beneath it. The Kimberley was the next Australian body version of the original Austin 1800. Not sure what the body equivalent was in the UK, if indeed there was one. This had been lengthened at the bonnet by 6" to accommodate the V8 and was indistinguishable unless parked beside a standard car. This arrangement allowed them to test engines, drive-trains and suspension on public roads without attracting the slightest bit of attention. In the end, Project 76 Model A got the go-ahead and presumably the Holden and Austin mules went to the crusher, as did most of the coupe versions of the P76, the Force 7V, that had not been released when the company ceased operation.
This is all from memory and from a very long time ago, so I may have a few errors in the detail and I haven't had time to Google and see if it is out there somewhere. Also from memory is the recollection that the engine was originally destined for the Rover P8; the big car that Leyland killed off because of the XJ6.
I did have a Wheels magazine from the time which had a comprehensive article on the development of the car and its parallel project but unfortunately I lent it to an old friend (my boss at Wing Lee in East Boundary Rd, Vince) when he bought a P76 in the late '70s. Also unfortunately, he died many years ago so the magazine has long gone.
When the car was released, Leyland took the unusual step of launching it with a mock TV documentary about its development and industrial espionage. A 30-minute (60-minute?) comic-drama-doco-advert that aired on TV. Probably something well ahead of the times. I wonder if a copy has survived?
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Post by enigmas on Apr 15, 2008 8:48:12 GMT
Excellent recount Warwick...you deserve an elephant stamp.
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Chris
Rover Rookie
Posts: 20
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Post by Chris on Apr 17, 2008 10:21:59 GMT
I have one of those suckers an authentic P76 Targa Florio, sitting in the rear of the garage. It has not been started for least four years, the last time I tried to kick in the guts she would not fire up so I left it. It. Although it is not a high km car only done 103,000 km and the mechanicals and interior are in excellent condition, all it requires is fresh paint job to bring it back to top class car. The wife detests it always asking when is "The Tank "going, little does she know it is staying and will probably be a good retirement project.
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Post by enigmas on Apr 17, 2008 10:28:58 GMT
Glad to hear that you've managed to hold on to a cherished "toy." Why not post a pic or 2 of the vehicle on this board.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Apr 18, 2008 0:23:56 GMT
Get yourself a copy of Evan Green's book Chris, and read it to your wife over a candle-lit supper.
No wait; on second thoughts, not a good idea.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2008 5:04:26 GMT
LOL forget the pic of the car, take one of your wife's face whilst reading her the book.
I find that as time goes by, the P76 is looked on in a better light that is only improving. The price of them stays pretty low from what I see but then again, I was offered a HG 327 Monaro 10 years ago running for $4000 so time will tell...
Cheers Damian
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Apr 22, 2008 8:13:09 GMT
And you didn't buy it Damian, did you! I sold my almost mint '55 FJ in 1976 for $800 when the book value on average was $50. It was Dad's car from new until 1968.
Just read an article in the paper that our local panel-beater (when we lived in Croydon) and who repaired my 504 back in the mid '90s, has a 1948-built FX could sell for $1,000,000 plus. An NSW car dealer has another and has knocked back an offer of $900,000.
I'll e-mail the clipping and you can sob quietly to yourself.
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Post by Warwick on Nov 12, 2008 11:29:32 GMT
I did have a Wheels(?) magazine from the time which had a comprehensive article on the development of the car and its parallel project but unfortunately I lent it to an old friend (my boss at Wing Lee in East Boundary Rd, Vince) when he bought a P76 in the late '70s. Also unfortunately, he died many years ago so the magazine has long gone. I recently mentioned this to someone and amazingly they had bought an almost mint copy of this magazine at a swap meet (Aussie auto jumble). They sent me a good colour photo copy. Much more info than I recalled, spread over several articles covering the development of the car and the engine. Anyone interested in a scan?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 0:11:47 GMT
Yes please.
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Post by Warwick on Dec 1, 2008 1:20:21 GMT
I already had you pencilled in away.
It's a significant magazine for another reason. He thoughtfully included the contents page and another article is a test on the new Passat. Unfortunately I don't have that article. It marks the beginning of the Audiization of VW.
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Post by Warwick on Jan 18, 2009 12:01:35 GMT
I've updated the info above since receiving a scan of the original article. See strike-outs and italics in the 3rd post from the top. I wasn't far off the mark, but there is a lot of other interesting stuff. Later I will try to post a good copy of the photo showing the Rover V8 with the BW35 set up for front-wheel drive.
Another interesting bit of info I'd forgotten was that before they considered the enlarged Rover V8 they were contemplating developing a slant 4 and a slant six for a smaller car and using these as the basis of a V8 and V12 for the larger car. In the end costings put a stop to this and the Morris Marina became available and seemed to fit the requirements of the smaller car.
Virtually the whole project was done without UK knowledge because BLMC management believed that we would just keep getting the kinds of cars that were produced for the home market, not acknowledging the fact that they didn't compete particularly well with the locally made US Big 3 derivatives and weren't well suited to our needs.
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