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Post by Warwick on Jul 16, 2008 11:00:23 GMT
Until we get more information to the contrary, it would seem that Castrol GTX (or GTX Original) as it is produced today IS NOT the same oil that we knew from the early '70s when it was specified for these engines, and many others I own or have owned.
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Post by enigmas on Jul 16, 2008 13:31:23 GMT
Thanks for your assistance once again on this chart Warwick and please guys feel free to chime in with any details that are missing. ~ Vince
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 3, 2008 8:28:13 GMT
Vince I am now confused I am going to do an oil change normally I use Castrol XL30 Classic I rang my local supplier of Penrite oils who said "we dont use Penrite we use Duckams! but we can order you some" confused.com
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Aug 3, 2008 11:01:09 GMT
Just to add to this topic how about some info on the dashpot oil.?? We are told DONT use engine oil, use only sae 20w oil what would that be in todays market 3 in 1 ??. What does the majority of owners use??.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 3, 2008 11:34:45 GMT
I use a SAE20 industrial sewing machine oil you can buy it by the 250ml to 1Ltr
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 3, 2008 16:14:08 GMT
Never 3 in 1 - ATF
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Post by enigmas on Aug 4, 2008 9:07:59 GMT
Sorry guys, I haven't noticed any action on this post for a while. I'm between computers at present...in the process of upgrading and have been unable to update info due to an inability to transfers files to my cache on my ISP.
Dashpot oil: (eightofthem) Consider what the dashpot does first? It acts as an enrichening device when the throttle is opened quickly by slowing down the rise of the needle. i.e. If the dashpot lifts quickly (forced acceleration) the engine runs momentarily lean...can you hear that death rattle? A heavier oil slows down the rise in all situations until equilibrium is reached (at constant cruise). Take a look at the (sticky) Youtube videos that Phil has marked. One of them refers to the dashpot...unfortunately I can't recall which one off hand. John Twist recommends quite a heavy oil...for the above reasons. Try different weights and assess the best result for yourself. I've used everything from ATF to gear oil (its not going to hurt anything).
Don't be afraid to experiment..from what I've read on the board quite a few of the cars mentioned ping/rattle at certain throttle openings a momentary slight enrichment may overcome this.
Oils ain't Oils (johnwp5bcoupe) My preference for the next oil change is Penrite Classic Light 20W50 for: (1966 Rover 4.4 coupe, 1973 VG Valiant coupe (hemi engine), 1966 XT Ford (6 Cyl, 3.3 litre pushrod engine). WHY, because the manufacturer has keep the needed additives (zinc & phosphorus) at the appropriate level for flat tappet engines. Has printed this data on the label and it is readily available at a very reasonable price. (Under $30 AUD for 5 litres).
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 4, 2008 9:50:48 GMT
Interesting Vince I have just spoken to Castrol Technical UK and they have assured me the Classic Oil series in the UK is the original formula with Zinc and Phosphorous made under UK licence! The USA version is different!
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 4, 2008 10:53:04 GMT
Too thick oil in the dash pot especially when cold will overrichen the mixture - straight 20 grade is the recommended stuff and evne jack oil can be used. some oils cause sticky residues
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 4, 2008 12:52:04 GMT
I seem to remember through the grey mists of time using Redex Phil
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Post by enigmas on Aug 4, 2008 13:52:41 GMT
Ok John, can you provide me with the details and I'll add it to the chart (As well as UK only) Phil consider how little the dashpot lifts during warm up or idling (a negligible amount). Dashpot flutter would cause more unevenness in mixture variation.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 4, 2008 15:03:27 GMT
He wouldn't give it to me Vince only that the formula is as per the original oil he was aware of all the hype particularly in the USA I tried another classic oil supplier and got the same response " we cannot divulge the contents of our oil"
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Post by Warwick on Aug 5, 2008 0:52:39 GMT
Interesting Vince I have just spoken to Castrol Technical UK and they have assured me the Classic Oil series in the UK is the original formula with Zinc and Phosphorous made under UK licence! The USA version is different! Okay, this is interesting. If the formulations for the same product vary from country to country, it certainly adds a level of complication. As for damper oil, everything I've read (besides the official SU/Rover literature) and every experienced person I've spoken to advises something different, and is quite adamant about their own recommendation. Engine oil, SU oil, AFT, SAE20, SAE30, olive oil, (no; that one was a joke). I have come to the conclusion that it is more dependent on climate than probably anything else. If you look at both Vince's and Phil's comments you'll see what I mean. It is a British carburetor and a single grade oil was originally specified. A single grade oil will change viscosity as it warms up and the damping effect will be different for a cold start (particularly on a cold morning) than it is when the engine is at operating temperature. So for a UK car or a car in a UK-like climate, the best oil is probably the one that SU specified. Everywhere else the best is probably what has been found to work best. I seem to recall reading on a website some months ago, that the writer recommended changing damper oil for summer and winter. It may have been a site for Volvos using SUs and I think that was in Canada.
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Post by enigmas on Aug 5, 2008 8:40:28 GMT
Gee, How hot do your dashpots run Warwick? John in the end trust your own gut feeling and judgement. I'm particularly wary of experts and especially experts that won't provide specific info about their products or work. The additives to minimise wear on flat tappet camshaft engines is/was commonly known technology in the oil industry when most engines were of this configuration. Your request for specific information was nothing to do with the development of new 'secret' technology. Frankly, I don't buy the trust me I'm an expert response. John it's your engine...In the end I'd choose a product that you definitely know has the appropriate amount of the correct additive to protect your engine. The expert will not take any responsibility for these components if you notice premature wear. Penrite print protection for flat tappet engines on the front label of their Classic light Motoroil.
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Post by Warwick on Aug 5, 2008 8:56:44 GMT
Gee, How hot do your dashpots run Warwick? The early Range Rover is better able to move hot air downwards and out of the engine bay than a P5B, simply due to a more spacious under-bonnet area and lots of ground clearance - and the dampers on the CD Strombergs run bloody hot in the summer. So I'm just guessing. Trust me - I'm an expert. This is why I live in the country and have most of my clients in the city. You see an expert is anyone more than 50 miles from home. In fact if you can bring in someone from another country, they clearly have even more expertise. So it's quite clear then ... John you should take heed of Vince's advice. I on the other hand will ignore Vince, and follow Phil.
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Post by enigmas on Aug 5, 2008 9:27:20 GMT
Very diplomatic Warwick.
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Post by Smallfry on Aug 5, 2008 22:59:17 GMT
If you look in the Rover owners handbook, you will see it specifies an SAE 20 oil for the dashpots.
However, if you look at other manufacturers books, some specify engine oils of various grades, ATFs and "light machine oil"............whatever that is exactly ?
The purpose of the oil is to stop the engine "bogging" under acceleration, and I think the truth of the matter is that there is no "correct" oil at all. There may be an "ideal" oil, but as this is a method of engine tuning, different manufacturers may have experimented for best results ? There are so many variables out there..........climate, fuel quality, altitude, etc, even differences in same engine types and states of tune, compression ratios...............and so on.
So basically, go with whatever is recommended for any particular engine, BUT, even then,it might not be absolutely right. There is room for experimentation if you so wish
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Post by Warwick on Aug 6, 2008 0:10:49 GMT
... and "light machine oil"............whatever that is exactly? Smallfry, I think this may be the clear colourless oil sold in small bottles by Castrol as light general purpose oil or by Singer as sewingmachine oil. Here's a good opportunity for some regional experimentation. Miguel and Alfonso can try olive oil; and Vince, you see what you can do with emu oil.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 6, 2008 7:46:48 GMT
Back on engine oil I had a reply from Castrol UK here it is : Castrol Classic XL20w/50 uses the original 1960-1980 formulation API SG which has ZDDP Zinc content of up to 1230ppm, this type of chemistry was useful at a time when major cam wear was experienced on engines such as the Ford Pinto API SG Denotes service typical of recent gasoline engines and some diesel engines in recommended maintenance procedures. API SG has been superseded by API SH and became obsolete Jan. 1, 1996. 129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.nsf/technicaldata/EFD6B16DB69FA76380256EE8003D5704?OpenDocument
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Post by enigmas on Aug 6, 2008 8:13:47 GMT
That's a win John. There has to be a large niche market for our type/technology of engines (and not just V8s) The oil companies may need to heed the questions of enthusiasts like us or lose a customer base. Club boards like this help advertise this dissatisfaction across the world to a growing audience.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 6, 2008 8:26:20 GMT
Yes it's good to get a straight reply Vince I can remember the 2Lt Pinto engine was notorious for knocking out camshafts so an interesting reply
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Post by dorsetflyer on Aug 6, 2008 19:07:35 GMT
Regarding dashpot oils, remember the thinner the oil you use the more frequently you will be topping it up.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 7, 2008 14:11:43 GMT
Here is another old oil by Witham they have been blending for for many years 80+ I have just got a reply Zinc PPM Classic Elite All grades ----- 490 Classic 20w-50 20w-60 ----- 1275 Minster All Grades ----- 898 www.withamgroup.co.uk/vintagelubs.html
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 7, 2008 15:46:57 GMT
I use Duckhams 20w/50 sometimes - its OK on part worn engines. with newly built engines a 15w/50 is better or even a 10w/40.
I use Comma green 20/50 in my 3 Litre and have used this for over 30 years in various cars with total success except is smells horrible in P5B's with a leaking rear seal. £22 for 4 x 1 gallon containers. its to API-SG spec as well. They do a much cheaper one with no specs
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 7, 2008 16:07:09 GMT
Is that £5.50 for 5lts Phil?
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