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Post by Warwick on Oct 20, 2010 3:54:27 GMT
I just asked Castrol via their website e-mail contact, what is the ZDDP content of Castrol GTX Diesel. This is the oil I use in my Peugeot turbo diesels. I was contemplating using it in the Range Rover and P5B if the ZDDP was high enough. I explained why I was asking. Their answer was ... Zinc = 0.127% (or 1270 ppm) _________ Phosphorus = 0.116% (or 1116 ppm) These levels are typical of ZDDP levels used for many years and is suitable for older style pushrod engines.According to various sources including info Vince posted on the first page of this thread, the minimum level should be 1200 ppm, so GTX Diesel would appear to be at the minimum level. roverp5.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general31&action=display&thread=2579&page=1This compares with Penrite Classic Light (20W 50) which has 1760 ppm Zinc and 1584 Phosphorus. In my case, running a high detergent diesel oil in the V8s shouldn't create a problem because the Range Rover has already been running on LPG for a couple of years and will be reasonably clean inside, and the P5B has had its heads and valley cleaned and will have the sump off and cleaned out before running again.
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Post by eisdielenbiker on Mar 22, 2011 15:16:58 GMT
Hi What 20W50 diesel oil did you use...? eisdielenbiker Hi kanter, I like to order at the Ravenol shop. Very real prices. And fast delivery. At the moment I also use Twin-Stroke-Oil in the tank at a ratio of 1 by 100. The engine runs lovely for an old worn bit of congested metal. Barely any smoke when cold. It uses to consume a lot of oil. 1 litre in 1000 km at high speeds.
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Post by baconsdozen on Mar 22, 2011 18:08:50 GMT
I add two stroke oil to the fuel in my diesel taxi,it seems to run a bit quieter especially when cold. I think as engines get older its a case of "every little helps".
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Post by p5rover on Nov 12, 2015 0:29:12 GMT
Just read this thread for the first time, thought I would add my bit. I've been looking into what oil to use on my next oil change, after reading up on zddp, seems like theres not a lot of oils left with a decent amount of zinc in them! to protect the camshaft. The best oils that ive seen so far are, Valvoline vr1 20w50, penrite 20w50 or 20w60 and mobil 1 v twin 20w50. Think I will probably go for the mobil vtwin as its got plenty of zinc and is designed to withstand a lot of heat without breaking down, so its more than up for the job! its bloody expensive though!! but I would rather spend a bit more and know that its doing the job than save a few pound and be worrying if its good enough.
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Post by enigmas on Nov 12, 2015 8:54:08 GMT
Don't run a thin synthetic oil in your V8 Rover engine. The oil pump was not designed for it. They're designed to pump the oil in volume. You'll end up with noisy lifters as the bleed down rates are wrong. Your motor may leak like a sieve too. You really couldn't do much better than Penrite. Vintage, veteran and classic cars are their forte. This topic was originally started because engine builders/reconditioners/restorers noticed that camshafts were being chopped out on flat tappet engines shortly after a rebuild. Most stuff being produced today is OHC, fuel injected and fitted with catalytic converters, so current oils for these types of engines has been reformulated and is patently not the same stuff as produced in the 50s/60s/70s, even though the product may carry a similar name. It's ultimately your choice but think about the engine design and the tolerances/clearances that it currently runs. PS. VTwin oil is intended for big inch, air cooled Harley Davidson's and the like that are subject to extreme temperature variations by virtue of the engine design. That really is an over kill on your V8...but it's only money! * Penrite 20w50 or 20w60 is what I use.
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Post by davewright on Nov 12, 2015 10:34:45 GMT
I always use Penrite even though it is Australian. It uses the best of modern technology to make an oil suitable for classic cars.
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Post by p5rover on Nov 12, 2015 11:14:26 GMT
Don't run a thin synthetic oil in your V8 Rover engine. The oil pump was not designed for it. They're designed to pump the oil in volume. You'll end up with noisy lifters as the bleed down rates are wrong. Your motor may leak like a sieve too. You really couldn't do much better than Penrite. Vintage, veteran and classic cars are their forte. This topic was originally started because engine builders/reconditioners/restorers noticed that camshafts were being chopped out on flat tappet engines shortly after a rebuild. Most stuff being produced today is OHC, fuel injected and fitted with catalytic converters, so current oils for these types of engines has been reformulated and is patently not the same stuff as produced in the 50s/60s/70s, even though the product may carry a similar name. It's ultimately your choice but think about the engine design and the tolerances/clearances that it currently runs. PS. VTwin oil is intended for big inch, air cooled Harley Davidson's and the like that are subject to extreme temperature variations by virtue of the engine design. That really is an over kill on your V8...but it's only money! * Penrite 20w50 or 20w60 is what I use. Your right about most synthetics being to thin, the lowest I would go would be 15w50. The good thing about the mobil1 v twin is that its a good thick(20w50) oil and its also fully synthetic, so best of both worlds. Also you are right, most of the older oils that carry the classic name don't even have enough zddp in them!
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haikuhead
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 167
Location: London
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Post by haikuhead on Nov 12, 2015 22:56:54 GMT
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Post by barryr on Nov 13, 2015 9:04:09 GMT
One of the few things I do get from halfords is their 20/50 classic oil. Smells and looks like good old castrol gtx to me! And price is good too.
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Post by p5rover on Nov 13, 2015 12:49:25 GMT
One of the few things I do get from halfords is their 20/50 classic oil. Smells and looks like good old castrol gtx to me! And price is good too. Might be cheap but its got less than 1000 ppm.
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Post by p5rover on Nov 13, 2015 12:51:30 GMT
morris classic 20w50 has 700 ppm. Not good!
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 13, 2015 18:33:16 GMT
But good enough for most classic cars owners who pootle around on fine weekends occasionally and dust/polish it the rest of the time
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Post by p5rover on Nov 13, 2015 19:31:09 GMT
But good enough for most classic cars owners who pootle around on fine weekends occasionally and dust/polish it the rest of the time That's probably true, but as I like to use mine as much as possible I would rather get the best stuff, as I do like to use the v8 power every now and then.
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Post by barryr on Nov 13, 2015 23:59:40 GMT
Good to know details - as Phil said mines just sitting in the garage at the moment so it won't hurt to use halfords classic plus I dropped the sump and cleared 40 years of sludge recently. I'm changing cheap oil frequently and now it's staying clean between changes.
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Post by tarnowl on Jul 27, 2017 11:15:21 GMT
Just read this thread for the first time, thought I would add my bit. I've been looking into what oil to use on my next oil change, after reading up on zddp, seems like theres not a lot of oils left with a decent amount of zinc in them! to protect the camshaft. The best oils that ive seen so far are, Valvoline vr1 20w50, penrite 20w50 or 20w60 and mobil 1 v twin 20w50. Think I will probably go for the mobil vtwin as its got plenty of zinc and is designed to withstand a lot of heat without breaking down, so its more than up for the job! its bloody expensive though!! but I would rather spend a bit more and know that its doing the job than save a few pound and be worrying if its good enough. I know that there has been a lot of discussion on the subject of engine oils and as I live in Southern France, the oils available are certainly not the same in this area at least. As I acquired my P5B Coupé last February, I was planning soon to give her a service and obviously an oil change. I have been offered a product called Sprint XT 1400, which is a 10W 40 semi synthetic, having been assured that it is a direct equivalent for the normal recommended oils in the handbook. Although I exited the supplier will some of this oil, I am very uncertain about using it after reading the comments on synthetic and presumably semi synthetic oils on this site. I would be interested particularly in the comments of owners outside the UK regarding suitable suppliers, as there seems to be problems transporting the correct oils from the UK.....Suggestions?? Tarnowl.
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Post by nz on Jul 27, 2017 20:57:39 GMT
I've been using Penrite Classic Medium in my petrol classics for 5 years. No problems.
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Post by djm16 on Jul 28, 2017 2:06:50 GMT
10W40 sounds a bit thin. Also, unless you KNOW the ZDDP content of your oil, do not put it in your engine. If you are really getting nowhere finding out that information, then use a 20W50 diesel oil and change it again as soon as it starts to turn black.
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Post by enigmas on Jul 28, 2017 3:41:14 GMT
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Post by spitfire6 on May 11, 2020 21:12:58 GMT
Hi, Nice cars! I joined just to see the general consensus regarding engine oil ten years later:
Is high levels of ZDDP still the most important attribute when considering engine oil? ie 1000ppm Zn/P On an engine with the OEM clearances use 20W50 regardless of oil pressure? Do not use synthetics on this engine even if rebuilt?
Have opinion changed over the last ten years?
Cheers,Iain.
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Post by enigmas on May 11, 2020 23:34:26 GMT
If you have a flat tappet engine....mainly a camshaft in the block and not OHC the engine will require ZDDP at the appropriate levels. Of course Rover 3 litre IOE runs roller lifters on both sides I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). It's the pin point pressure of these components that cause an issue....so break-in during first startup is critical to the life of flat tappets & lifters. Use appropriate high pressure camshaft lube during assembly.
Further, apparently ZDDP doesn't activate until the engine is hot...only then does it act to coat the contacting surfaces. So revving the car whilst the engine is cold is very detrimental to camshaft/lifter life.
There are kits (I have photos of these kits in an old Petersen Hotrod magazine) to convert a Rover V8 to full hydraulic roller lifer. If this were done ZDDP is not required.
Generally all flat tappet engines require ZDDP.
Most current engines are now OHC and do not use tappets. ZDDP is harmful to the long term life of exhaust system catalysts used to clean up exhaust emissions so current lubricants are manufactured to have very low levels of ZDDP.
Oil pumps in Rover V8s are designed to pump in higher volume not high pressure. High pressure destroys the bevel gears of the distributor & camshaft. These V8s function perfectly/reliably for 100s of thousands of miles if kept to their original design parameters. Race versions are a different breed with highly specialized components to ensure reliabilty for purpose.
Modern CNC built engines generally require thinner, higher heat tolerant oils due to their very tight tolerances and the need to get oil to distant OHC components quickly during initial start up.
Hope this assists.
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