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Post by denis23 on Oct 3, 2009 20:25:48 GMT
Well, gents, as you probably discovered, LHD P5B and especially P5-s is something very rare (currently less than 5 in sale all over the world)
Especially rares is 3-0 litres. Appr. half of the LHD cars I saw belongs to the UK diplomates.
So, can somebody provide me any data about the LHD P5 and P5B-s production numbers? Especially, divided by engine/body type??
If there is no data exist, will be happy with substantional numbers.
But my feeling that numbers is very modest.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 3, 2009 21:25:15 GMT
SEARCH!
2532 + 2596 Manual & Auto respectively 3 litres and 783 P5B's
More trhan double 3 litres of all types RHD & LHD were made than 3.5 litres but surviving cars 3.5's outnumber 3 Litres
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Post by denis23 on Oct 3, 2009 21:43:20 GMT
Ouch...I am shocked. Less P5 LHD survives than Mercedes 540K...Now I understand, why they offered at 3X price of nice Silver Shadow...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 6:48:16 GMT
Hi
In Sweden we have 52 LHD 3 litre saloon in the register and 26 LHD 3 litre Coupe in the register. P5b we only have 2 coupe and 2 saloon. I don't know exactly how many Saloon we have on the road for the moment, but we only have 5 P5 coupe and 2 P5b coupe on the road. (LHD cars, we also have some RHD cars). You find all the production figures in James Taylors book.
Regards
Lars
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 4, 2009 8:07:38 GMT
Only 48541 3 Litres were made in total compared to 20600 3.5's so survival rates are catully quite good. It never was a volume production car and annual production was always sub 10000 in the 15 years it was built 7445 being highest in 63/64 (the best year P5 IMHO). 3.5 Litres only just breached 5000 in 1 year - 1968/69
There are only just over 2000 left on the rgistartion records in the UK - most of these will still be off the road though and there will be others that have been lost in barns which never made it to the computerised records
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Post by denis23 on Oct 4, 2009 21:57:11 GMT
Lars, do you have an idea, who bought grey P5B from Geteborg, owned by one family all of the time, and advertised in Blocked two month ago?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 12:26:39 GMT
Hi
No one, I think it is still there. is it the p5b saloon with registration no: CAN954. car no: 84300021A ? Do you have the number to the owner?
Regards
Lars
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Post by denis23 on Oct 5, 2009 19:42:20 GMT
Hi Lars!
I don`t know reg.numbers. This is grey P5B from Geteborg, belonged all of the time to one family (might be
But I have photo of the serial number plate.
There is (!!!):
Rover Co Ltd Rover 3 Litre Mark II Production number 7730002A
So, that`s misterious...This is pure 3.5 Saloon. But lable seems original. Any ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 20:41:19 GMT
Hi
7730002A, is a very early Mk II Saloon, in fact the second LHD manual that was built in 1962. A P5b LHD saloon always have a number that starts with 843. The Silver Birch (light grey), with black trim, saloon that was for sale in Göteborg (Gothenburg) earlier this year is car no: 84300021A. I made a check with the car register earlier today and the car is still owned by the Crantz family. It is the same owner since 1987. I don't believe it was sold new in Sweden because the first registration in Sweden was 1979. I think they still wants to sell the car, if you are interested just give them a call.
Regards
Lars
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Post by denis23 on Oct 5, 2009 21:36:40 GMT
Oh, no, Lars, no!!
This car (Silver Birch saloon with black trim) in Göteborg was subject of close inspection of my purchase agent, who did many dozens of high res. photos. I still have it and currently watching.
At the A-post there is label with clearly visible number "7730002A", I have no idea, how it appears there. Car is 100% P5B, early one. I have very close photo, alongside with many other photos done in this place and in this time.
And at the dashboard, there is chrome plate with Rover logo and signature: "Cissi Crantz; Hisings-Kärra" Well...I think, that usually cars obtain such plates in the dealer room, before beiung delivered to the customer...(but this is just my expectation) And, finally, Lars, I afraid that original 7730002A is now exists in the million of the GILLETTE razors all round the world)))
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 22:14:57 GMT
Hi It is the same car, the number 8430021A is from the Swedish car register and is an authentic number for a 68 P5b. I have not seen the car myself but if the A-post have a label with the number 7730002A it is probably taken from an older car that is scrapped. The number 8430021A was recorded when the car first was registered in Sweden 1979. I have no idea, why anybody would fit a fake label Regards Lars
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 22:20:38 GMT
One more thing
It is very easy to see the present owner in the Swedish car-register. Cissi Crantz has owned the car from 23/10 2002, before that the owner was Staffan Knepler from 11/4 1987, before that Rolf Lindberg from 2/12 1981 etc.
Kind Regards
Lars
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Post by denis23 on Oct 6, 2009 7:36:04 GMT
Yes, totally agree.
The car is interesting, mainly because it is LHD. Condition is good, but probably need works throughout. Some rust in usual places.
Well, and do you know grey 3.0 Litre, which beloged to the Holger Löwelander? Reg. number is starting with "180" It is very nice car.
Can foreigners check data from Swedish car-register too??
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2009 17:44:55 GMT
Yes you can check data on "Transportstyrelsens" homepage, the link is: www.transportstyrelsen.se/But you must use the Swedish version, not the English version. It is a little bit difficult to navigate right if you cant read Swedish. Holger Löwenadlers old car is ESG180 car no 74300151C, it is believed to have only a genuine 65000 km on the odometer. I have not seen it in real life but I believe that the body and interior is in very good shape. But a car that is not driven since 1982 (27 years) always need a lot of mechanical works. The owner ask a lot of money for the car, far to much in my opinion. You will need to overhaul the brakes, engine, gearbox etc.... But if you could buy it for a realistic price maybe 10-15 thousand sek. It would be a good project. Regards Lars
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Post by denis23 on Oct 6, 2009 18:30:04 GMT
Eee...I almost bought it@95 000 SEK... This is low mileage LHD P5 coupe, once owned by very famous person. I just want to check some things for example, how much Volvo Suggas and Dodge WC-s there))) And Cissy Rover was 65000 SEK, and it also cheap if you look to the Actually, all cars in Sweden is cheaper than in continental Europe... Lars, can you give me instruction where how should I proceed with this register page??)) Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2009 22:31:45 GMT
Instructions:
1. first page, click on "Fordon" 2. Second page click on "Fordons & ägaruppgift" 3. Third page click on "Sök uppgifter om annat fordon" 4. Fourth page fill in registration number for example ESG180 and fill in the security numbers. 5. If you want information about owner they will send it to you by fax, fill in your fax number.
Regards
Lars
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2009 22:48:02 GMT
You are right about the car prices in Sweden, I don't know why, but the old car hobby in Sweden is mostly about American cars, if you look at the advertising in old car magazines you will find one European car for ten American. We are importing a lot of old Cadillacs etc every year. But I think the price pictures for old Rovers is nearly the same as in Britain, but we have so few road worthy P5:s so it is hard to get a grip of the prices. One thing is peculiar with Sweden and that is that owners ask to much for restoration projects and to little for fine cars. Holger Löwenadlers old P5 is a good example of that.
Regards
Lars
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Post by denis23 on Oct 7, 2009 7:43:59 GMT
Many thanks. Is there is possible to see statistics by car model and year?
About Sweden. Well, first, ar least on photos H.Löwenadler car is not restoration project at all. I have dozens of photos from 2008 and may say, that this is real time warp vehicle. At least from photos, yes. On the photos it`s obvious that car been driven and not sitting for years - this is pictures done outside of garage etc. Interior is like new, although later rumours is that lately it has slight influence of moisture. So, it`s not restoration project at all.
Cissy`s P5B in Gothenburg looks really like ordinary daily driver, but also far better than people keep in mind when they saying "restoration project".
You know, that in ordinary people`s lexicon "excellent" means average, "very good" means dirty everyday driver, and "fair" means rust bucket below repair.
So, I should say, that both swedish rovers I investigated - P5B in gothenburg and Löwelandler`s P5 Coupe was REALLY nice cars, especially last one.
BTW. I am agree, that almost every car is restororation project. Even my P5B which I bought for relatively hard money in UK, and I know, that half year ago previous owner paid same money for it - now it`s going through some minor welding (sills, door lower parts etc) and respraying. We can call this "easy restoration" - taking up to 1 month and 2-3-4 000 EUR.
About Sweden.
This is fabulous land for car every enthusiasts. I bought my 1942 Dodge WC52 from Jämtland and very satisfied with this. One thing which is very, very strange in Sweden - prices for old w108 and w111 Mercedeses, which is very cheap compared with other Europe. I don`t understand why source still not dryed up...
P.S. There is been also 2 other P5-s in Blocket last year. One was in Stockholm and this was former British embassy car with manual, and other was quite rough.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 13:46:28 GMT
Hi
You cant see statistics on the webb, you have to order statistics from Transportstyrelsen and pay for it. About Holger Löwenadlers P5, you can see on the information provided on the web that the car has a "körförbud" (prohibited to use) 1/3 1983. After that it has been illegal to use the car on public roads. I spoke to the owner Lars Törnblad a year ago and he informed me that the engine had not been started for over ten years. He recommended me to lift the cylinder head before trying to start it. I believe that the car has been in storage for 27 years and not driven. I do believe that the car is a real time warp, but you have to drive a car to judge the real condition. In my opinion the car is like a museum piece, nice to look at but dead. It need a complete recommission before you can use it, and that will cost you at least 50 000 sek. Thats why the price is far to high.
Regards
Lars
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 13:57:20 GMT
The British Embassy P5, It is still there it is owned by a trader in Stockholm called Capital Car AB, It is believed that it is a very nice car, completely restored, whit new rubber etc. Registration number is FYX783 car no: 77300604C.
Regards
Lars
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Post by denis23 on Oct 7, 2009 18:37:21 GMT
What can I say...you absolutely right.
You are probably best Rover P5 specialist in Sweden. Nice to know all this things from you. Like discovering secrets))) What is interesting - no any P5 advertised in Blocket been sold (at least those which I remember)
All is still on the market. British embassy car (if we speaking about same car - this was dark blue 3 litres with manual) was not very nice at least on photos. And price was far less, than all other adverts: something 35 000 SEK or so...
So sad, that Mr. Löwelandler car is not for sale at realistic price...It deserves more than sitting in the barn. And offcourse if it`s not started for 10 years - it needs at least mechanical overhaul, if not more. May be you have pictures of British Embassy Rover?
And still saying - Sweden and UK both fabulous lands for old car fanatics. Probably best in Europe..lost on W108 Mercedes in Örebrö - owner didnt speaks english, and therefore car was sold.
What ever, it`s very nice to see somebody not from 2000, but only 300km avay)))
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 19:23:51 GMT
Thank you I bought my P5 Mk II -64 coupé in august last year,(see picture) it is far from perfect, but it is a car that has been in regular use by the same owner since the seventies. It was newly "besiktigad" (MOT) when i bought it, so i could drive it home nearly 600 km, no problem. You know we only need MOT every 24 months in Sweden on a 30 year old car, 30 year old cars is also free from road tax. Another benefit is that insurance only cost 650 sek/year. Regards Lars
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 19:32:54 GMT
Here you have a picture of the Embassy car, it is not the 35 000 sek/car, that one is another with registration number AXD391. Regards Lars [
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Post by denis23 on Oct 7, 2009 19:44:41 GMT
Your car seems fabulous. My favourite kind of P5 - 3-litre coupe LHD. Very stylish. People on streets probably ask you - is this biggest version of Amazon Well, this British embassy car seems very good. It`s should be manual, reason why I rejected this once. And if is not, this is not that car. What was the price, do you remember? Do you have gallery of Swedish P5-s? Here in the wild East MOT (TÜV) is not a problem at all. You pay 25 EUR and got it for 12 month. Car should be safe, no other requirments for classics. Insurance is appr. 100 eur/year. Lars, are you driving on original 6.7-15" tires? I have just 4 NOS 6.7-15. Will try to applicate museum registration - and then will fit it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 20:19:57 GMT
Hi
The Embassy car is manual with overdrive and so is mine, it works very well MK II manual have a stronger engine than the automatics and is quite fast, if you read old P5 tests you will find that P5 Mk II manual is the fastest (top speed) of all P5 (higher top speed than P5b). The high gearing makes it possible to drive as fast as you dare. My tyres is radial (they looks like cross-ply) Avon turbo steel 185H15, the white side is of the "fake" sort, but they was on the car when I bought it, i think they looks nice on a black coupe. You are right about the amazon, a P5 looks like an amazon on steroids ;D
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