Ian B
Rover Rookie
Posts: 23
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Post by Ian B on Mar 10, 2012 18:23:55 GMT
I've fitted a Kenlowe fan today into my 1970 P5B - I got the 13" 2-speed one. Unfortunately I'm no electrician but I think I followed the instructions pretty much ok! The thing is, the fan comes on full speed as soon as the ignition is switched on (engine cold) - at the moment the control box doesn't seem to be doing anything and I'm wondering if anything's wrong - As of now the connections are: +ve feed for fan - ignition tab on right of fuse box -ve from fan - earthed to body +ve feed for control box - battery tab on right of fuse box -ve from control box - earthed to body (also tried -ve terminal of coil) Does that sound right? Thanks in advance for any tips........  Ian |
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Post by corbin on Mar 10, 2012 21:43:04 GMT
Hi Ian, what you describe is wrong. If you google "kenlowe wiring" you will find the solution. Basically you need to feed the fan motors via a separate 30 amp fused supply through two separate control relays. The thermostat controls the relays independently at different temperatures, or manual control for top speed. Good luck with your project it's well worth doing and helps with fuel consumption, a bit. Attachments:
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Ian B
Rover Rookie
Posts: 23
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Post by Ian B on Mar 10, 2012 22:33:33 GMT
Thanks for the reply Corbin - and for sourcing the diagram, although it looks like a different setup from the model I have.
Here's a scan of the diagram that came with mine.....shows the setup for one or two fans.
The relays and thermostat etc are all in one control box with leads hardwired in for the fan itself and the controller. The connections seem pretty clear but I think must be doing something wrong....!
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 11, 2012 7:29:29 GMT
The set up for both are more or less the same if you have a +Ve feed to the battery line and the control lead to the ignition forgetting about anything else it should work fine, the ignition control lead merely tells the control unit the engine is or should be running (when hot and switched off the stat/control unit takes over for a while) if you use an override switch it just puts on a permanent 12v instead of the switched 12v from the ignition.
If you have no override switch it sounds like you have a fault with the unit? even if you take both leads to the +ve on a cold engine it shouldn't run!
Good Luck.
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Post by corbin on Mar 11, 2012 7:41:11 GMT
Hi Ian, the way you have wired it up has bypassed the control box and the fans will run continuous. Follow the diagram you have and don't use the fuse-box as the supply to the fans as it will overload that existing circuit, instead take the supply from the alternator output terminal stud or directly from the starter motor battery connection with an "in line" fuse @30 amp . The control box supply yellow wire can come from the existing fuse box( ignition switched, second fuse down from the top if I remember correctly) as the circuit draws minimal current. For the moment forget about the two options mentioned on your diagram as they are not required to get your installation up and running, use them to fine tune to your requirements later. And remember, as long as you protect what you are doing with fuses the chances of damaging anything is fairly remote.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 11, 2012 8:35:45 GMT
If he uses the none fused side of the fuse box there will be no problem corbin I have seen a lot wired this way and no problem as this wire comes directly from the Ammeter! the yellow wire is the 12v supply to the control unit and is just a switched 12v supply I cant see how he has wired it incorrectly as there are only 2 wires both needing 12v the yellow and the red and as I said if they both go to 12v on the same supply on a cold engine the fan should not run  if it does there is a problem elsewhere? Ian if you remove the Yellow wire does the fan run? Is the temperature sensor a Capillary one (Thin Copper) or a Wire type? |
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Post by corbin on Mar 11, 2012 10:47:19 GMT
John, read Ian's first post, he describes that he has wired the fans directly to a supply and earth, omitting any control at all.
If he takes another (nominal 20 amps ) supply from that old cable supplying the fuse box it's going to get warm, (if you check the dimension of it you will see it can't be rated for the additional load and it connects to the bus bar above the steering column not the amp meter) not recommended in old wiring, ever heard of thermal runaway? Anyhow it's easier and closer to take it from the alternator and safer!
In my humble opinion it's better to do the upgrade properly than bodge it and regret it later.All the information is available if you SEARCH
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Ian B
Rover Rookie
Posts: 23
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Post by Ian B on Mar 11, 2012 11:53:19 GMT
Thanks for the tips chaps.....it's not exactly a bodge just yet, but I've certainly been using some trial and error here ! I take your point Corbin about taking the fan's power from a different source than the fuse box - I've only had the fan running for a few seconds at a time so far, testing it with power from the igintion control and also the battery control tab. There's an inline 30A fuse included, hardwired in just before the control box. At the moment the problem seems to be that the control box isn't telling the fan whether it should be on or off - the supply/connections don't seem to be working even though I've connected them as you both (and the instructions) suggest. John, it makes no difference whether the yellow wire is connected or not. And the sensor is a thin metal rod about 5mm thick that is pushed through the radiator fins near the top hose. I'm coming to the conclusion that the control box may be faulty - will consult Kenlowe tomorrow! Thanks again - appreciate the help Ian |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 11, 2012 15:27:27 GMT
I read Ian's post corbin, As of now the connections are: +ve feed for fan - ignition tab on right of fuse box
-ve from fan - earthed to body+ve feed for control box - battery tab on right of fuse box
-ve from control box - earthed to bodyFrom the description he meant +ve supply to the fans ie the 30amp and +ve supply to the control so he had IMHO done the job correctly apart from being on the wrong side of the fuse  I cant see a fan drawing 20 amps that's 250 watts It's up to Ian if he fits a separate supply and would probably put his mind at ease now if he did, the very thick short wire to the Ameter Bus Bar is more than sufficient! it would be No1 on the fuse block, and yes after 49 years in Electronics I am aware of most pitfalls of the old and new Ian if the fan is running and no yellow wire connected as you say ring the supplier, I have tried to find the current drawn on Google but it varies from 13 amps to 60 amps and of course if it's a twin fan it would be more! could you ask the supplier what the start up current is and the nominal current Ian please, it would be good for future reference. Good Luck Just found this a 13" draws 11.3 amps www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/fans-fan-kits/kenlowe-thermo-electric-fans |
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Post by corbin on Mar 11, 2012 17:35:34 GMT
John, read his post again, he states ,+ve feed for FAN(not the control box) - ignition tab on right of fuse box.
Maybe after 49 years it's time for a rest.
LOL
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 11, 2012 18:06:10 GMT
I don't need a rest thanks  I may be grey haired but the brain is still 100%! He is correct as stated on the diagram RED +ve SUPPLY FOR FAN (S) what more can he do? the other Yellow wire is not fused! he got his fuses mixed up for sure but would not affect the outcome, this is why I pointed him to fuse position 1 for the fan feed the ignition one is self explanatory! If he connected the Fan feed to the ignition feed it would still work! if they both went to the same feed it would still work! the ignition feed to the control unit does what it says "the car is running" ignition off then the control module plus stat decides whether it needs to keep feeding the Fan with 12v. I don't know if there is a fan burst when first activated he may be getting confused I don't know! At the moment with only the 12v connected to the Fan supply it runs when cold with no other input! |
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Post by corbin on Mar 11, 2012 18:48:27 GMT
You are assuming he has wired it correctly, according to his first post he has wired the fans across the battery, so they will run contiguously, won't they? The later post with the diagram details , positive supply for fans. This may be your area of confusion. And when you get a minute check the output wire dimension from your alternator to the bus bar( a little larger than the supply to the fuse box) and it only carries the output of the alternator???. I can't see Kenlowe selling faulty goods, I'm sure it would be checked before dispatch and any how it's only a couple of relays, my bet is that Ian in all his enthusiasm has just got a bit confused and needs a bit of friendly cautious correct guidance and information from the moderators on here. |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 11, 2012 19:26:15 GMT
I am sure the kit would come with all wires as "plug and play" so there will be only one red wire with a fuse holder which is marked as on the diagram fan(s) of course if it were twin it would have 2 of these. Ian would not have found a fan terminal floating around and connected that I am assuming he is a bit switched on and folowed the instructions. Just connecting 12v at the fan lead I don't know if there would be an initial fan burst as the control unit sets up? but it should not keep running as the stat is cold plus without the ignition control it shouldn't function anyway as the control module has not had the "ignition on" 12v supply. Time will tell! I am busy changing the Digitizer Screen on a iPhone 4 for a friend who broke the screen just to keep the old hands and brain working  and tomorrow I am machining some pieces on my lathe for my project MK2 which is just about finished. I will post some info in the members section soon  |
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Post by stevew on Mar 11, 2012 19:51:56 GMT
Sounds like you have too much on your plate John. Best stick to your Digitizer Screen
IMHO
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 11, 2012 19:55:20 GMT
Just finished that steve what now |
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gollop
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 108
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Post by gollop on Mar 12, 2012 10:28:17 GMT
Hi all
This is weird now I'm have problems with my fan. Fitted it over Christmas. It's a kenlowe and has been working fine but over heated on the weekend as the fan didn't kick in.
On adjustment of the thermostatic controller it wouldn't kick-in and after checking all the connections came to the conclusion that the the relay must have blown so I changed it.
The fan now started to work and I thought great all fixed. But then packed up straight away. So on the way to work this morning (a short drive where air flow would cool the engine) the fan kicked in at a set of lights.
On arrival I adjusted the controller and even tried the old relay and all seemed fine.
But weirdly it's stopped working on the way home and no amount of adjustment makes any difference.
Any suggestions?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 12, 2012 10:32:51 GMT
Hi gollop your the man to ask is there a short pre run period when the ignition is switched on?
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Ian B
Rover Rookie
Posts: 23
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Post by Ian B on Mar 12, 2012 10:39:20 GMT
I just had a very helpful chat with Stephen at Kenlowe and he concluded there's probably a fault in the control unit - they are going to send me a new one. He also confirmed that there's not much chance I could have done anything to blow it up myself  !! I'll keep you all posted next weekend! |
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gollop
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 108
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Post by gollop on Mar 12, 2012 10:40:53 GMT
Not sure do you mean. The fan checked in after driving for probable ten minutes this morning but didn't kick in when I'd driven all the way back home tonight and the engine was v hot?
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gollop
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 108
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Post by gollop on Mar 12, 2012 10:44:23 GMT
Interesting Ian you couldn't send me his details could you. This has got me well stumped. All I can think Is that the thermostatic controller is screwed as the symptoms I've got are very inconsistent.
Strange.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 12, 2012 12:22:04 GMT
I just had a very helpful chat with Stephen at Kenlowe and he concluded there's probably a fault in the control unit - they are going to send me a new one. He also confirmed that there's not much chance I could have done anything to blow it up myself !! I'll keep you all posted next weekend! Well at least you are on the right track Ian seems as though you and gollop will be conversing What I was querying gollop was as soon as you switch the ignition on from cold is there a short burst on the fan? Keep us posted. |
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gollop
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 108
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Post by gollop on Mar 12, 2012 20:15:00 GMT
No there's no short burst from cold when u switch it on. Unless the engine is hot then it might kick
On when u you refire it up.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 12, 2012 21:22:53 GMT
Thanks |
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Post by Warwick on Mar 12, 2012 23:23:49 GMT
Now this is all very interesting.
Am I to understand that Kenlowe has a 2-stage thermostat?
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Ian B
Rover Rookie
Posts: 23
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Post by Ian B on Mar 17, 2012 15:54:07 GMT
Update: Success!
The replacement control box arrived in the week, and I've fitted it today - very easy, all working ok, doing what it should.
Just need to take it for a proper run to set exactly when the fan should kick in.
Yes Warwick, the version I have is the two speed one.
Thanks again for all the help chaps.
Ian
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if it does there is a problem elsewhere?
I may be grey haired but the brain is still 100%!
and tomorrow I am machining some pieces on my lathe for my project MK2 
!!
