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Post by Gordon Harrower on Jun 25, 2012 15:12:06 GMT
The leaf springs on my P5 (1963 Saloon) are sagging badly on one side, virtually collapsed on the other, resulting in the car being higher on one side than the other. A local spring shop (USA) just told me that all they could do is simply add another leaf to each spring because mine are so far gone.
So, the question is whether new ones are available and worth the dough to ship from the UK. Alternatively, according to a search here, a fellow American seemed to have better luck with a local shop (although not local to me). Does anyone sell new springs?
Thanks, Gordon.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 25, 2012 15:43:52 GMT
I would try and find someone who knows what they are talking about Gordon Surely over there there must be someone who can reset leaf springs
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Post by Warwick on Jun 26, 2012 3:33:22 GMT
Start by talking to vintage car and American classic car people for recommendadtions. If it's anything like over here, there are plenty of leaf-spring specialists around, but most of them are geared to the 4x4 market and only talk in terms of inches of body lift. But there should be some around who actually understand old car suspension.
For example, there is one in Melbourne that has the original technical specs for a huge range of old cars and they can reproduce or reset springs accordingly.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jul 2, 2012 18:23:32 GMT
I agree - get some locally made NEW springs to order - they are not rocket science but the adding extra leaf is is bodge used in the 1930's even in the US as I recall reading about in some old Modern Mechanix mags from same era - these are full of what many would now consider dangerous bodge ups but all had their place then and even now!
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Post by Warwick on Jul 3, 2012 4:09:12 GMT
Gordon,
I'd be very surprised if Dirk couldn't refer you to someone who knows what he's doing with leaf springs.
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Jul 4, 2012 16:02:38 GMT
Thanks, guys. No news yet. I have an email in to Dirk, but he must be inundated by such requests.
Gordon.
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on Jul 6, 2012 2:39:17 GMT
The heavy truck market is where the spring makers ply their trade these days. I have never actually had them do work for me, but I know that we have Donovan Spring in Manchester, NH. I'd be shocked if you couldn't find something closer, though.
Talk to your local, friendly diesel garage for a good referral.
Tom
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Jul 24, 2012 20:56:31 GMT
Here's an update, and (of course) I'd like more advice. I've found two places in the US willing to work with me. One would rehab the old springs for a pretty reasonable price ($130 per spring), the other poo-pooed rehab, saying that it's pointless to re-temper steel that old. He wants to make new springs for $400 each, for which I might as well buy new springs from the UK.
So, the question is, what do you think about the re-tempering old springs?
Thanks, Gordon.
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roverp5b
Rover Fanatic
whats in your mirror
Posts: 195
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Post by roverp5b on Jul 24, 2012 21:17:23 GMT
Hello Gordon, my springs were re-tempered by a company in North London some 10 years ago, still look good with no trace of sagging.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jul 24, 2012 21:20:30 GMT
I have had it done successfully on other cars but P5 springs do settle a lot and if transverse grooves have worn then springs will be noisy, with knocks and clicks. They can be ground out but this weakens the springs and the leaves do fracture.
Refurbished springs can often retain the nylon interleaf buttons fitted to OE springs
Loads on search on this topic
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Post by enigmas on Jul 24, 2012 22:24:35 GMT
Hi Gordon, you could also add a pair of polyairs to both level the car and assist in carrying loads. They are low pressure units with separate valves (use a bike pump). Mine have been on the car for at least 20 years.
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on Jul 25, 2012 1:28:33 GMT
FWIW, Someone once mentioned that the replacement springs are too stiff. YMMV.
Tom
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Post by Warwick on Jul 25, 2012 2:36:03 GMT
Apart from the wear that Phil mentioned, someone who knows what he's doing should be able to retemper springs so they are as good as new.
As for the Nylon spacer discs, there are probably suitable versions available for US cars. Holdens used them on leaf springs in the '60s and they are still available. However, as the Holden was a lighter car than the P5, they had narrower springs and the Nylon discs are smaller in diameter. But I would expect heavier US cars would have had wider spring leaves, so if they used the disc they would have been larger in diameter. Worth asking around.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jul 25, 2012 5:56:36 GMT
Here's an update, and (of course) I'd like more advice. I've found two places in the US willing to work with me. One would rehab the old springs for a pretty reasonable price ($130 per spring), the other poo-pooed rehab, saying that it's pointless to re-temper steel that old. He wants to make new springs for $400 each, for which I might as well buy new springs from the UK. So, the question is, what do you think about the re-tempering old springs? Thanks, Gordon. Worth a try at $130 especially if they are prepared to work with you
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Aug 6, 2012 17:35:29 GMT
Here's the latest: I had a general repair shop look over my car while I thought about the springs, and also asked their opinion. Their suggestion was "air shocks," or, alternatively, air springs such as those enigmas posted pictures of in this thread. The thinking was that the existing springs are tired, but not broken, and the prices quoted (including labor) are so high, the air devices supposedly being a cheaper alternative. Would air shocks or air springs be a better bet?
Thanks, Gordon.
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Post by frans1950 on Aug 6, 2012 18:48:25 GMT
My leafsprings ware tired too and also not broken and there is a LPG-tank in the boot. From a donorcar I had 2 air-assisted shockabsorbers. Now the car has its original height at the back and drives very good! You can easily pump the car higher or lower just as you wish.
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Post by enigmas on Aug 7, 2012 1:31:20 GMT
Gordon, the rear leaf springs on my car are probably in the same category and have been for the last 20 years. The difference is the 'polyair' bags fitted. They do 2 things: assist the springs where needed and also resist spring windup under hard acceleration. If you know how leaf springs work you'll understand this. The symmetrical design of the Rover rear leaf spring suspension is very outdated even by terms of the cars production history. More modern designs are assymetrical (Fords, Chryslers and most GM stuff of the 1960s to 80s. The polyair bags are very low pressure and will not affect the ride quality. As a plus you can also level the car if one side sags a bit. If you are interested in this route...I'll forward you the method I used to locate these units.
Air shocks commonly have one fill point and will cause greater loading on the shocker mounts.
As an aside, if the rear end of the car is too high there will be reduced caster angle and self centering on a vehicle that already has negligible caster angle.
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Aug 7, 2012 11:25:10 GMT
Yes, enigmas, I'd like to hear how you found yours. I've been scouring the Internet, but most bags and kits seem to be designed for trucks.
If you'd prefer to send and email: gharrower200@gmail.com
Thanks, Gordon.
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Post by enigmas on Aug 7, 2012 11:48:45 GMT
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Aug 16, 2012 12:57:26 GMT
Vince,
Thanks. I'm having a hard time getting a response from the -wheel drive shop. Could you please tell me, if you know, what model of polyair you got?
Thanks,
Gordon.
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Post by enigmas on Aug 16, 2012 20:26:39 GMT
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Sept 11, 2012 10:03:12 GMT
Thanks to Vince, I was able to find and install an air suspension similar to his. Mine was made in the U.S. by Firestone, and seems to be working fine so far. The car is level for the first time since I've had it. The acid test will be this weekend, when I take it to a car show on a golf course.
Gordon.
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Post by enigmas on Sept 11, 2012 13:10:48 GMT
Glad to read that you sorted the problem George and am looking forward to your feedback and experiences. ~ Vince
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Post by Pete Collins on Sept 11, 2012 15:27:43 GMT
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Jos
Rover Rookie
Posts: 39
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Post by Jos on Mar 30, 2021 9:43:41 GMT
Another question, (sorry for all the questions, I am in the process of restoring my saloon and have to learn a lot about P5's...). It seems better to replace my rear leaf springs for a pair of new ones, rather than restore them, they are rather rusty and 50 years old. Now, at Wadham I noticed there is the original 5 leaf spring and a specially developed 7 leaf spring. Has anybody experience with the 7 leaf spring? It seems that one is -though modified- giving a better ride.
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