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Post by Warwick on Oct 25, 2012 2:56:08 GMT
Cyf, Do you know what these are?   |
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Post by Dean Hovland on Oct 25, 2012 5:45:46 GMT
Citroen SM v6 ?
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Post by cyf on Oct 25, 2012 6:59:28 GMT
Looks like a Citroen GS or CX
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Post by Warwick on Oct 25, 2012 7:18:03 GMT
Not quite exotic looking enough for an SM, Dean. (Incidentally, a friend sold his SM last weekend).
Way off the mark, Cyf.
The first photo is one of BMC’s many ADO16 prototypes, photographed in 1961. ADO stands for Austin Drawing Office and was applied to all new projects after the formation of BMC (Austin-Morris merger) in 1952. ADO16 was the Alec Issigonis designed car to replace the Morris Minor. This prototype is a proposed body by Pininfarina. It pre-dates the Citroen GS and Alfasud by over 10 years.
It was thought to be bit too adventurous by BMC management and ADO16 was styled in-house and released as the Morris 1100.
The second photo is one of BMC’s even more numerous ADO17 prototypes, first drawn in 1961. This prototype, again proposed by Pininfarina, is wrapped around the Austin 1800. Again, conservative management rejected it, and Issigonis ended up styling the Austin 1800 himself.
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Post by stan on Oct 25, 2012 10:34:04 GMT
Shows you how forward thinking the designers were and how backward thinking the accountants!
Nothing changes...
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Post by Warwick on Oct 25, 2012 10:45:06 GMT
I hasten to add that I don't think there is anything wrong with the styling of either the 1100 or the 1800. At least not until they were used for badge-engineering. Both became iconic cars.
But it does show how far ahead the great stylists think.
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Post by stan on Oct 25, 2012 11:48:50 GMT
Just thought there is a touch of Space 1999 about them!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 17:35:47 GMT
Well done Warwick!! I would have said Citroen too...
Quite amazing that while we were putting French cars down we were also copyng them!!
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Post by dmaxwell on Oct 25, 2012 18:43:08 GMT
On the subject of car design ahead of its time, when the TR-7 came out, I thought it was one of the ugliest cars on the road! Well, today, the wedge shape looks pretty good to me.
David
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Post by cyf on Oct 25, 2012 19:35:09 GMT
warwick, I'm sure you knew I would say Citroen!!
They really look ugly to me however
dmaxwell, my friend has a TR7 in the coolest colour: Triton Green
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Post by mcgill on Oct 25, 2012 23:08:46 GMT
Interesting.......Looking at the different way the rear arch sits over the wheel in them pics,screams Citreon suspension,the Alfa spyder door handles, early Talbot Alpine stance,Austin 1100 hubcaps.....
I thought it was a Alfacitreontalbotmaxi......
Talking of prototypes,.....have you seen the prototypes of the p5 coupe with its pillars design,why oh why didnt that go into production...
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Post by stan on Oct 26, 2012 8:02:32 GMT
Interesting.......Looking at the different way the rear arch sits over the wheel in them pics,screams Citreon suspension,the Alfa spyder door handles, early Talbot Alpine stance,Austin 1100 hubcaps..... I thought it was a Alfacitreontalbotmaxi...... Talking of prototypes,.....have you seen the prototypes of the p5 coupe with its pillars design,why oh why didnt that go into production... I thought it shook too much and they had to stick normal doors on it ??  |
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Post by Welsh Warlock on Oct 26, 2012 8:05:26 GMT
Interesting.......Looking at the different way the rear arch sits over the wheel in them pics,screams Citreon suspension,the Alfa spyder door handles, early Talbot Alpine stance,Austin 1100 hubcaps..... I thought it was a Alfacitreontalbotmaxi...... Talking of prototypes,.....have you seen the prototypes of the p5 coupe with its pillars design,why oh why didnt that go into production... Stan is right. I have read, possibly in James Taylor's book but maybe elsewhere, that Rover just couldn't get the pillarless design to work so added the slim stainless surrounds as a compromise. |
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Post by Welsh Warlock on Oct 26, 2012 8:06:43 GMT
Well done Warwick!! I would have said Citroen too... Quite amazing that while we were putting French cars down we were also copyng them!! If that design is as old as Warwick says then were we copying the French cars or way ahead of them? |
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Post by mcgill on Oct 26, 2012 10:12:17 GMT
[/quote]
Stan is right. I have read, possibly in James Taylor's book but maybe elsewhere, that Rover just couldn't get the pillarless design to work so added the slim stainless surrounds as a compromise.[/quote]
Yes it is Taylors book....
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Post by Warwick on Oct 29, 2012 4:53:19 GMT
This wasn't copying Citroen, before or after. They're designs by Pininfarina.
So it's really an Italian design that was offered to BMC and knocked back, then revised and offered to Citroen several years later, and accepted. It's good that BMC did decline. If they'd run with those designs we would have been denied the original Morris 1100 and Austin 1800.
David,
I thought the TR7 was ugly too, back then.
Incidentally, I'm sure I have a magazine article from the time on the design of the TR7. I can look if anyone is interested. Was it Harris Mann?
Apparently Rover was influenced by the Citroen DS when designing the P6 body structure.
And speaking of the Austin 1800 - I just remembered my own barn find. When we moved from the city into our present home, I opened the large farm shed (10m x 15m) to discover a nice Austin 1800 Mk2. The previous owner of the property had left it behind, as he no longer wanted it. I had no need for it and it needed a bit of bodywork - not much. I tried to find someone who would take it, even trying the Austin 1800 club, but without luck. In the end I took it to the local wrecker; then only about 1km away. It was left beside a very sad looking P5 with an interior of leather and wood that can only be achieved by the persistent application of Australian sunlight. That weekend some kids from the city on a school camp got into the yard and smashed all the glass, ripped off all the badges, and generally B****red up any useful body panels on both cars - so they went to the crusher.
That was the first time I'd seen a P5 in a very long time and it was the last one I saw before embarking on my search for one 9 years later.
Several years later I discovered that when new, the 1800 had belonged to the late father of my sister-in-law. He had sold it to the former owner of our home. I have since regretted disposing of it, although I much prefer the cleaner lines of the Mk1.
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