win53
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real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 21, 2014 8:22:16 GMT
Hi All the backrest of my drivers seat will not stay put even when i lock it with the adjuster. I have noticed that the mechanisim that operats it is worn and the thing will not lock in position. Is it easy to take this out and replace it or will i need a new seat ?. If it can be rectified has anybody got any idea how to do it and if someone has a spare one could they let me know. Look forward to your replies.
Colin
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Post by cyf on May 21, 2014 9:46:13 GMT
Hi Colin
The mechanism is really worn or do it just need to be adjust?
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 21, 2014 10:33:31 GMT
Hi Cyf It appears to not connect when the back rest adjuster is operated. I think it does not sit in the notches from what i can see. Can it be adjusted then ? if so how do i do that please.
Colin
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Post by Welsh Warlock on May 21, 2014 10:55:51 GMT
I suspect that either it needs adjusting or something is broken.
The adjustment is expalained in the workshop manual.
I have some spares from a set of sets I stripped if you nee dthem but you should investigate what is needed first.
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 21, 2014 14:12:15 GMT
Hi Thanks will investigate first and try to adjust them and will let you know.
Colin
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 21, 2014 17:35:46 GMT
I assume you have a Mk3 P5 or a P5B as the adjusters are totally different on Mk1/Mk2's?
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
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Post by win53 on May 21, 2014 18:07:20 GMT
Phil i have the Mk3 P5B saloon 1972.
Colin
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Post by GlennR on May 22, 2014 10:39:16 GMT
Phil i have the Mk3 P5B saloon 1972. Colin That will be a P5B saloon then.
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 24, 2014 15:12:16 GMT
I suspect that either it needs adjusting or something is broken. The adjustment is expalained in the workshop manual. I have some spares from a set of sets I stripped if you nee dthem but you should investigate what is needed first.
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 24, 2014 15:14:24 GMT
Hi it looks like the Locking Pin is not keeping it locked as i had a look today and tried adjusting it. Would you have a locking pin in the dismantled ones if so how much would it b Many Thanks
Colin
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 24, 2014 19:58:05 GMT
SEARCH and pics too then for a Mk3/P5B
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Post by enigmas on May 25, 2014 11:07:46 GMT
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Post by Simon H on May 25, 2014 21:43:49 GMT
Nice pictures but they don't seem to match the text. I have been watching this thread with interest because I have exactly the same issue as the OP. I did ask about it on the forum before but I was directed to the instructions for re-tensioning the back rest mechanism as per the printed instructions in the picture. I'd like to know what is going on in the pictures regards the hexagonal nut with the 3 holes and the different length studs. Is the longer stud a special 'service' tool?
Simon H
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 25, 2014 22:46:48 GMT
The longer stud is part of the locking mechanism. Look at the other seat and it should be obvious if something is missing/broken
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Post by enigmas on May 25, 2014 23:22:08 GMT
The mechanism for locking the seat into position works by clamping the arced slots. To use an analogy...it is similar to the function of a brake caliper locking onto a brake disc. By lowering the squab lever the mechanism reduces in length (winds it self in, becoming shorter) and subsequently locks (squeezes) on the slots. Natural wear on the internal thread through tensioning occurs over time. The fix is to add more preload to the mechanism by tightening the hex nut with the locking pins probably by one or two rotations.
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Post by Simon H on May 25, 2014 23:29:21 GMT
I gave it up as a bad job last time because the instructions didn't match the task. I don't think anything is broken, hopefully it just needs adjusting. It's still not very clear...
Simon H
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Post by enigmas on May 26, 2014 1:50:55 GMT
Things never are! Be brave and dive in...you soon discover how it works. None of this is rocket science...no-one dies I also need to adjust my driver seat squab locking mechanism (which still functions but is at the end of it's travel)but have other more pressing projects at this time. When I do mine, I'll post some straight forward text and images for those with similar concerns.
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Post by enigmas on May 26, 2014 11:36:39 GMT
Not that I wanted to do any seat repairs today, but Forrest Gump's famous words were realized when I curiously removed the cover plate to check the mechanism. So this is what I found. Repaired, welded and cleaned up. Painted An observation: Wouldn't it be nice if the upholsterer who did the car several years ago bothered to inform me about the fractured part before the leather back went on. Fortunately the seat squab locking and torsion bar mechanism is no where near as complex as the text in the WSM. I'll post images and text of the components as I clean/repair/refit them. Quick fix for seat squab lockReference to the drivers side. (RHD) 1 Release the DS squab lock (big lever to your left) 2 Remove the stainless steel plate on the side to the rear of the driver's seat (RHS). 3 Unscrew and remove the locking pin on the locking pad (big hex nut). That's the one to the side... not the centre one. 4 Tighten the Locking pad 1 rotation clockwise...it should tighten on the centre pin which is threaded at both ends. 5 Replace the locking pin. 6 Trial the big lever to see if it holds sufficiently. 7 If it doesn't hold, try another rotation of the locking pad. 8 You may need to hold the threaded pin in the centre of the locking pad with a small screw-driver as you tighten the locking pad. 9 Replace the locking pin. (Pix to follow)
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Post by Simon H on May 27, 2014 10:07:38 GMT
I just had a go at this. I turned the hex nut 1/3 of a turn to the next locking pin hole and refitted the locking pin. I have now locked the seat back to the point that I'm scared of breaking something trying to get it to recline. The big lever to the left still has loads of movement and feels to 'tighten' as before just as it gets to to the end of it's downward movement. I'm tempted to just lock it in a comfortable position and forget about the whole thing....
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Post by enigmas on May 27, 2014 11:07:54 GMT
Simon, the quick fix I suggested has nothing to do with the torsion bar that controls the action and return of the back rest. Rotating the pad bolt to the next hole just takes up some slack in the seat locking mechanism. Think of the disc brake analogy I used.
You need to rotate that pad bolt 1 or 2 turns at least (back off the lever before you do this) The pad bolt screws onto a long rod that ends at another pad bolt on the lever side. The long rod is threaded for about 3/8" on either side. You can't do any damage. Just screw the pad bolt a few more turns. As you tighten the pad bolt (on the long threaded rod ensure that the rod is not turning also. If it does hold it with a small screwdriver. You will know if it is working as some of the rod thread will protrude through the pad bolt. Hopefully this will save you a complete disassembly.
* I have some more component pix to post a little later.
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Post by Simon H on May 27, 2014 12:49:59 GMT
Thanks enigmas. Just to clarify what's happening in my case:
Before I tried to adjust anything it was possible to make the seat back recline by pushing backwards when the locking lever was as far down as possible. Raising the locking lever released the seat back enough for it to spring back (just) to the upright position. I could then set the correct position in the normal way but again the locking lever reached the end of it's downward travel without fully locking the seat back in place. I don't perceive it to be a torsion bar issue. Turning the pad bolt just 1/3 or 2/3 clockwise locks the seat back solid, even with the hand operated locking lever in the fully up position. For now I have put everything back as it was as I have other things to be getting on with.
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 28, 2014 8:31:05 GMT
Thanks Enigmas for the pics and instructions will try over the next couple of days and will let you know how i got on. Hopefully i will have a secure back rest and possibley a recliner. Can only hope...........................
Colin
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Post by enigmas on May 28, 2014 10:28:33 GMT
Win53, I finished rebuilding my DS seat this afternoon and I've learned a few things along the way. I have quite a few pix to post and these reveal more info than does several paragraphs of text. Unfortunately I won't be able to post the images until this Saturday.
A few tips. If the backrest locking mechanism is not damaged or broken like mine was, you can improve the point the big handle locks the seat simply by adjusting the padlocking bolt on the opposite side to big handle. That's the door side. If you follow my instructions in the threads above, simply remove the small locking stud and rotate the pad locking bolt 180 degrees. Try it and note the change in where the big handle locks. Add some more if required.
As far as I can see, unless someone has got to the mechanism prior to you and thrown the internal tube adjustment right out of kilter...this method should remedy the situation 9/10s of the time.
The Torsion Bar The back rest torsion bar is an entirely separate mechanism. It does not need to be preloaded or tension added to it at rest. (All this work is easier to carry out with the seat removed from the car)
Position the back rest upright or at 90 degrees to the seat base. You should view it as a right angle. (I did my seat inverted on a large table so that the backrest was pointing to the ground) You should now be able to remove the 3 screws that hold the backrest pivot in place. (The pivot also secures the hexagonal torsion bar)
You really don't need to go this far though, unless there is too much or too little tension on the bar to return the backrest.
If you want to continue, pin punch the torsion bar out of the pivot. The bar can go either way.
I completely disassembled the mechanisms in my seat because they had been roughly repaired. This enabled me to resurface, true-up and grease the components before reassembly. You don't have to go this far though to get the adjustments correct. Pictures of components and assembly to come.
Phew...that was far too much text. The pictures will clarify it for you..
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 28, 2014 14:01:59 GMT
Thanks Enigmas will look forward to the pics. Quite agree that was too much text but nevertheless managed to get the drift. Await pics in anticipation.
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win53
Rover Rookie
real rookie but willing to learn with help
Posts: 94
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Post by win53 on May 31, 2014 6:00:56 GMT
Enigmas thanks for your advise concerning the back rest they worked a treat. Only problem i had was it took some time for me to get the Locking Pin back in. For a minute i thought i bit off more than i could chew but it slotted in eventually and i now have a secure back rest. As for the recline its there a little bit but thats for sorting at another time for the present thou i can now drive with my back against the rest and have not got to strain my back keeping it forward. Many thanks
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