Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 18:26:52 GMT
Spring Gators may look nice/original but they may stop some dust but they can hold the water/damp I'd wondered whether that may be an issue - especially if you use vinyl, which isn't permeable. At least leather can breath a little. Were the original gaiters leather or vinyl? I'm certainly planning on using Denso tape on mine, just can't decide whether to use gaiters as well. Definitely NOT leather. I think it was only old RR's that used leather for spring gaitors. I remember stripping the rotted remnants off my springs ages ago and the material used was some sort of tough vinyl but I couldn't tell you what it was although it was probably the same stuff as is wrapped around the torsion bars.It crumbled in my hands and had long given up the job of protecting the springs! As I said yesterday and confirmed by John, Denso is the best stuff to use if a bit messy to apply. Remember to use the 100mm width and cover 50% of it on each turn(I know that's a long way off yet). If you do decide to go belt & braces and fit gaitors at least it will stop the greasy Denso from marking your skin and your clothes when you're under the car but Denso is a fantastic product.
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on May 1, 2015 18:43:57 GMT
Spring Gaiters may look nice/original but they may stop some dust but they can hold the water/damp I'd wondered whether that may be an issue - especially if you use vinyl, which isn't permeable. At least leather can breath a little. Were the original gaiters leather or vinyl? I'm certainly planning on using Denso tape on mine, just can't decide whether to use gaiters as well. Mine were Vinyl Richard as are the Torsion Bar ones but they don't get the cr*p the rear springs do I thought about fitting Gaiters over the Denso in fact I made some! but they served no purpose apart from looks, and as their original purpose was to keep the springs clean and dry! plus it was something to keep taking off for maintenance so I didn't bother
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 18:58:25 GMT
I'd wondered whether that may be an issue - especially if you use vinyl, which isn't permeable. At least leather can breath a little. Were the original gaiters leather or vinyl? I'm certainly planning on using Denso tape on mine, just can't decide whether to use gaiters as well. Mine were Vinyl Richard as are the Torsion Bar ones but they don't get the cr*p the rear springs do I thought about fitting Gaiters over the Denso in fact I made some! but they served no purpose apart from looks, and as their original purpose was to keep the springs clean and dry! plus it was something to keep taking off for maintenance so I didn't bother Richard is the only one who is spelling "Gaiters" correctly The way I was spelling it "Gaitors" or "Gaytours" sounds more like a holiday club for those of a certain sexual persuasion
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on May 1, 2015 19:14:47 GMT
OOOOOOOOOOPS at least they don't have teeth Richard Spelling amended
|
|
|
Post by richardlamsdale on May 1, 2015 23:04:20 GMT
Thanks for the info all. I managed to get 3 hours in the garage today, and got both springs off. My god they're heavy! Maybe that shouldn't surprise me - it seems the default setting for anything on these cars! I'll post some pictures in a few days.
|
|
|
Post by barryr on May 1, 2015 23:53:22 GMT
Ironically I ended up removing front torsion bar tonight for regreasing. The original vinyl gaiter is shot. Could you use denso on front torsion bars?
I hadn't planned on splitting the leaves but unlike the off side they fell out the adjusting arm!
( and yes John i hacksawed 2 diagonal lines across them before splitting so all is as was - great tip)
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on May 2, 2015 5:49:29 GMT
Denso tape would work well on the front bars
|
|
|
Post by v8pete on Jul 8, 2015 12:53:40 GMT
Just had a good talk with the chap at Brost Forge in London. They can re-temper/recondition the original springs for £85 each and can also press-in the new front bushes in the correct position (the guy already knew the bolt hole goes at about 1 o'clock, so they seem to know what they're doing). They have the original patterns and tempering 'settings', but they're also happy to set the springs to sit a specific amount higher than they currently sit. It's up to the customer. I'll be dropping mine there in a few weeks, and will start a thread for the re-furb. Have you got started on this yet Richard,i think I will be doing mine soon so any update would be gratefully received
|
|
|
Post by richardlamsdale on Jul 8, 2015 21:52:53 GMT
Just had a good talk with the chap at Brost Forge in London. They can re-temper/recondition the original springs for £85 each and can also press-in the new front bushes in the correct position (the guy already knew the bolt hole goes at about 1 o'clock, so they seem to know what they're doing). They have the original patterns and tempering 'settings', but they're also happy to set the springs to sit a specific amount higher than they currently sit. It's up to the customer. I'll be dropping mine there in a few weeks, and will start a thread for the re-furb. Have you got started on this yet Richard,i think I will be doing mine soon so any update would be gratefully received Yes, they're back from Brost Forge. They took the springs apart, cleaned them up a little, re-tempered and re-set them, then re-assembled them with grease between the leafs and painted them with a bitumen-type paint. They also fitted new front bushes that I supplied (I couldn't even shift the old ones - they're held very firmly by the loop in the main leaf) and repaired the spring clamps. Brost Forge said most of the spring pads were OK. They certainly didn't come back looking like new, but they would have been perfectly fine to re-fit as they were I think. However, I wanted to check them and repaint and grease them myself for my own peace of mind, plus wrap them with Denso and fit gaiters. I disassembled them, removed as much of the remaining rust from the ends of the two longest leafs and painted the ends with Hammerite (no point in painting them all as they'll be greased and wrapped). I then fitted new pads (as per the previous post I bought some Polyurethane pads that could be made to fit off eBay) and greased the leafs and re-assembled them. I've actually only done one so far (never seem to get any spare time), so can't comment on how the car sits. Brost Forge is an interesting place. They can remake leaf springs to any specification - apparently they serviced the springs on one of the Queens horse-drawn carriages recently, and when I was there were making a batch of springs for hand-made rocking horses. There certainly isn't much they don't know about leaf springs.
|
|
|
Post by GlennR on Jul 18, 2015 7:30:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Jul 18, 2015 22:06:36 GMT
Useful to know but now at an age where I know things are likely to outlast me! Starting to do things again for the 2nd/3rd time over
|
|
benedict_h
Rover Rookie
Benedict - P5B 1972 - Amstelveen, Netherlands
Posts: 74
|
Post by benedict_h on Sept 4, 2015 11:07:03 GMT
Hi all, Encouraged by the brave undertakings of a good many of you brilliant chaps here on this forum, I've been doing more and more maintenance and repair tasks on my P5B coupe myself lately. Admittedly, it's all been relatively simple stuff so far, but nevertheless quite rewarding. Almost as much fun as driving the daft vehicle . One issue had kept bothering me for some time: the high level of the car at the rear, which to my mind spoiled the look of the thing. I'd found out that the rear springs had been had been replaced in 2002 and that they were JRW ones, so not likely to lower. Despite clear instructions here and there (the Youtube one is great), I decided - after much hesitation of course - not to do the change myself, the reason not only being that it all seemed a bridge too far given my (lack of) technical experience, but that the outcome would be to a fairly large extent unpredictable. And where to get reliable second hand springs? Anyway, I had the job done by a well-established Rover specialist here in Holland. They replaced the rear springs, adjusted (slightly lowered) the level of the front suspension and aligned it. The set has been reconditioned / re-tempered by another - spring - specialist on an exchange basis. This is a ‘before’ pic. And this is how I got the car back yesterday, and I am myself quite satisfied with the result. Attachment DeletedSo much for cosmetic side of things. Now in terms of comfort. From what I read in threads about the subject, some of you have issues with JRW springs, whereas others have no complaints. Just to add to the experiences, I must say the ‘new’ springs are a MAJOR improvement in terms of road handling and comfort (the shocks were left on the car, as they were ok). The car behaves much better in corners, and people in the back simply remain seated when I drive over a speed bump (plenty of those here in Holland). Regards, Benedict
|
|
|
Post by guidedog on Sept 4, 2015 12:23:48 GMT
The car looks really great Benedict h. It looks like the original set up, well done.
I think a few other members would want that done.
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Berry on Sept 5, 2015 7:28:00 GMT
Sorry not to have been around for a bit, but an update on my spring set-up is in order I think!
First off, the change over went well but as pointed out by many the ride height was ridiculous. The actual ride was like driving a surf board, hard as nails. I used the car for a month or two with tractor weights and an LPG pump (Approx 150lbs) in the boot, and towing a very heavy hitch weighted caravan.
No Good! absolutely no give what so ever. I even jumped on the back - all 18 odd stone of me - and not a jot. Shook my fillings a bit though!
In for a penny as they say; off came the springs.
Cutting the DENSO tape was a revelation ... water poured out, so that is now a rethink.
I broke down the springs with the intention of removing a leaf or two. Due to the construction there is only one spring that is solitary, that is the middle one, so out that came. I decided to leave the bottom one in as that looked as it might act as a form of bump stop due to its thickness and it had no curve. Being short it would appear to not contribute to the suspension apart from stopping the spring going too far.
With a thorough coating of Graphite MolyGrease the springs were refitted.... What a difference.
Ride height although still a little high is now acceptable but, the ride itself is so much better. there is now give and absolute comfort in the ride and springs; so now all that is left to do is to replace the shocks. I managed to obtain some NOS OEM absorbers and they are going on during this winters major strip down. ( I am going to remove the fuel tank, clean and paint that and the surrounding area, also adding sound proofing)
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Sept 5, 2015 10:34:11 GMT
Chuck if you had water in the Denso you didn't do the job right I check mine every year and there is still black paint under the Denso and yes I have been on a few wet roads
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Sept 5, 2015 13:24:04 GMT
It's a pity that the JRW springs seem to be so unsuitable & unpopular especially after he has taken the trouble to get them made. I wonder why he didn't get them made up to a spec more like the originals because if they were, I'm sure he would sell plenty.Perhaps the width & gauge of steel is no longer available in small batches to remanufacturers. Has anyone actually asked him? It's the extra leaves I think?
|
|
|
Post by petrolhead allan on Sept 5, 2015 14:02:06 GMT
It's a pity that the JRW springs seem to be so unsuitable & unpopular especially after he has taken the trouble to get them made. I wonder why he didn't get them made up to a spec more like the originals because if they were, I'm sure he would sell plenty.Perhaps the width & gauge of steel is no longer available in small batches to remanufacturers. Has anyone actually asked him? It's the extra leaves I think? My coupe has JRW springs. They have five leaves, rather than seven (from memory...) of the Rover originals. They are considerably thicker metal, though, which no doubt explains the comparative lack of flexibility.
|
|
haikuhead
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 167
Location: London
|
Post by haikuhead on Sept 5, 2015 14:31:00 GMT
I wonder why he didn't get them made up to a spec more like the originals I've just removed the JRW springs that a previous owner had installed on my Coupe. I hated the way the backside of the car was up in the air and the awful juddery, bumpy ride those 'heavy duty' springs gave it. Not very Rover-like. I bought a decent old set of originals and had them re-tempered / re-fitted by Brost Forge in North London. The car now sits perfectly and handles much better too. I asked Chris at Brost Forge why new leaf springs can't be manufactured with the same spec as the old ones and he said it's simply about the quality of steel now available and that it just isn't as good as the old. It's not JRW's fault.
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Sept 5, 2015 15:25:28 GMT
I am not knocking Jon either at least he has made the effort to supply the springs! but if any supplier sells an item it must be fit for purpose and if not it should be sorted! this has been an on going problem for a while now
|
|
haikuhead
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 167
Location: London
|
Post by haikuhead on Sept 5, 2015 22:54:02 GMT
Yes, it's a shame for anyone driving a Rover P5B for the first time, if it happens to have the 'heavy duty' springs installed as it really gives the wrong impression as to the ride quality of these cars. Seems the best solution at present is to buy an old set of springs and have them re-tempered.
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Sept 6, 2015 6:12:53 GMT
The forum quote unquote is doing strange things Richard
|
|
benedict_h
Rover Rookie
Benedict - P5B 1972 - Amstelveen, Netherlands
Posts: 74
|
Post by benedict_h on Sept 7, 2015 10:59:17 GMT
The car looks really great Benedict h. It looks like the original set up, well done. I think a few other members would want that done. Thanks, Guidedog. Now it's on to the next project: installing electronic ignition. All in preparation for a family trip to Devon, England, coming october. Regards, Benedict
|
|
|
Post by Warwick on Sept 9, 2015 3:54:46 GMT
The forum quote unquote is doing strange things Richard I don't know why, but the Quote function seems to have been confusing a lot of people for several months. It's essential when quoting that you pay careful attention to where the cursor is when you start typing your reply. It has to be at the very end of of the quoted text. A lot of users also don't seem to realize that you can edit a quote to remove unnecessary text. For example, if you're only referring to a small part of the original poster's text, you can delete the parts that aren't relevant. This is particularly important when the post you are quoting is very long or includes photos. Quoting and requoting full text and photos from previous posts simply makes the whole thread unnecessarily long and filled with repeats of the same photos. If it is obvious what you have to say is in reference to or in reply to, there isn't any need to use the quote function. Quoting is of course important if you are responding to a post well up the page or on the previous page. If you're replying to the post immediately above, there really isn't any need to quote, unless it's brief. I think another problem is that some users don't realize that there is a Reply button, so they use the Quote button.
|
|
|
Post by barryr on Nov 24, 2015 23:35:44 GMT
I'm ready to remove my springs and I've read everything here and on search.
I'm taking the time to do this because although the ride height is perfect, the springs are creaking loudly and are rusty. In addition they appear almost totally flat. So far all bolts have simply come undone which is amazing!
The rear bushes aren't torn but look very poor externally although they aren't in much shear even with flat springs.
I am tempted to simply de- rust, lubricate and reassemble the leaves but I saw something on you tube that makes me ask a question. I can see daylight between some of the leaves and an American spring supplier said if you see that the springs are junk - that seems overkill to me what do you think?
my springs appear original or at least replaced in the past. Both original vinyl gaitors are still in place.
|
|
|
Post by enigmas on Nov 25, 2015 1:08:39 GMT
Hi Barry, don't turn you straight forward rear leaf spring rebuild into a nightmare by taking everything you read on the net as gospel! The springs on my car (1966 P5) are original and work fine. They have flattened (lower stance...which I prefer) and they still use the original mounts back and front. The rear mounts have distorted to accommodate the reduced arc of the spring over a lifetime of use but have not sheared. I never jack the car up using the OEM jack points or allow the diff to hang free. I monthly lightly spray the mounts with penetrene...which has kept them supple. (No, this regular maintenance doesn't rot the rubber mount!)
I have had the leafs apart to remove scale and all the old and worn plastic buttons at the leaf's ends. I radiused/linished the ends of each spring (no sharp edges) and linished the flat surfaces paying particular attention to any wear indentation in the leaf's working surfaces (these are stress risers and a cause for fracture, if left untouched)
I then greased the working surfaces and reassembled them. That's all. They don't squeak/creak or produce noise and the ride is quite supple for a leaf spring arrangement!
If your happy with the ride height...the rebuild is straight forward. As for leaving out the buttons...the grease provides a slippery medium and radiusing the leaf ends stops added friction and contact erosion. This works for my car. Good luck with however you decide to do the job.
|
|