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Post by David on Oct 16, 2014 8:14:39 GMT
Ken Burrows wrote:
I have a colleague who is a Rover Club member here in Melbourne who is repairing his Mark 3 P5 due to an overheating issue. He has found that there is an O-ring at the rear of the cylinder head which fits into a square section groove at the rear of the Westlake head. ( Mark 1 engines do not have this connection). The gasket set he has obtained does not include this O-ring, but does include the thick O-ring at the front for the water pump to cylinder head connection.
No-one here seems to have this O-ring available and while he has a selection of O-rings he is concerned that he may not have one that has the desired crush or even shape if the O-ring is actually rectangular in cross section. If it is too thick in cross section it may not end up remaining within the recess and may cause the head to not seat properly.
He has contacted Wadhams but he has not heard in over a week.
Can someone provide the dimensions for this O-ring and advise just what type of rubber is involved (nitrile, standard butadiene, neoprene etc) or can one be sent out to us here in Melbourne. It seems incredible that folk don’t replace this O-ring when replacing the cylinder head.
I don’t have a Mark 3 parts manual to hand so I can’t give the part number for reference.
Regards,
Ken Burrows
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Post by djm16 on Oct 17, 2014 5:42:29 GMT
I will shortly be replacing the head on my 3 litre, so I will keep you posted of what I find.
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kaiser
Rover Fanatic
worth his V8 in gold!
Posts: 136
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Post by kaiser on Oct 17, 2014 6:43:16 GMT
www.roverp4.com/purchasecheck.docAbove a reference to a document describing how it is necessary to remove the head to get at the O-ring between the pump and the head on a Weslake 110 P4 engine. Not that that is the case, the pump can just be removed and the ring replaced.! I did that and found the O-ring can just be replaced with one of many different sizes, it will do its job, provided it is approximately right on diameter and thick enough to be under compression. As an added safety, I used Victor Reinz Rinzosil, a silicone gasket maker which I can only recommend!(spelling might be slightly off, I haven't got a tube at hand) The O-ring at the other end I don't know, but I would check all facts before accepting that the head has to be lifted. And if that is indeed the case, I would consider using the sealer above if that can possibly save the removal. As for the link above, if anyone can get hold of the author, which I could not, he should correct his document, before somebody gets a heart attack. As for the rubber it is generally accepted that the normal O-rings are satisfactory in all engine uses, especially if not in contact with too much oil and not too high temperatures. However the better quality rings can be had for little cost, and I would just get one of those, especially if there is a lot of work involved in replacing. Failing that, I would have no qualms just using Victor Reinz. As an example, I have used this to seal my exhaust manifold on the P4 (works perfectly) and I made a permanent seal on the inlet tappet inspection cover on the same engine. Cleaned the metal of the cover, applied an even bead of silicone, placed the seal on a glass table and squeezed gently and evenly on a piece of baking paper. Left if for two days and peeled off the baking paper. I now have a permanent seal on the cover, and the cover can be removed and replaced as desired. It has not leaked one drop of oil and has been on the engine for the best part of a year!   
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Post by stantondavies on Oct 20, 2014 16:16:25 GMT
Ken Burrows wrote: I have a colleague who is a Rover Club member here in Melbourne who is repairing his Mark 3 P5 due to an overheating issue. He has found that there is an O-ring at the rear of the cylinder head which fits into a square section groove at the rear of the Westlake head. ( Mark 1 engines do not have this connection). The gasket set he has obtained does not include this O-ring, but does include the thick O-ring at the front for the water pump to cylinder head connection. No-one here seems to have this O-ring available and while he has a selection of O-rings he is concerned that he may not have one that has the desired crush or even shape if the O-ring is actually rectangular in cross section. If it is too thick in cross section it may not end up remaining within the recess and may cause the head to not seat properly. Can someone provide the dimensions for this O-ring and advise just what type of rubber is involved (nitrile, standard butadiene, neoprene etc) or can one be sent out to us here in Melbourne? It seems incredible that folk don’t replace this O-ring when replacing the cylinder head. The O-ring to which you refer is 532319. I have always found it to be included in the gasket set. It seals an oilway between the head and block. Without it oil is pumped out of the back of the engine. It sits in shallow CIRCULAR grooves on head and block and is very easily dislodged when refitting the head. I seat it with gasket compound which I let go off, so that the ring doesn't move. I don't know its size, but that can be measured from the CIRCULAR groove. I would think that any oil and heat resistant O-ring would do. |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 20, 2014 20:34:35 GMT
Not all gasket sets did have this essential O ring but a one-off could be made to order at any reputable bearing stockist from stock neoprene and you could make one yourself with just cutting a super=gluing a slightly larger one
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Post by djm16 on Oct 21, 2014 13:23:11 GMT
Cannot find the thing you are referring to on my 3 litre Mk II.
BTW, I bought a couple of boxes of imperial and metric nitrile rubber O-rings. One of my wiser moves.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 21, 2014 17:21:19 GMT
Few know it is there and do not look for it especially if its squashed flat or missing but it will be supposed to be there on a Mk2
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Post by djm16 on Oct 22, 2014 5:14:43 GMT
Phil you have been right about everything I have come across so far, but I am blowed if I could see anything resembling an oilway between block and head that needed O rings on mine, and unfortunately I have just put the head back on. The only oilways I could see that might be under pressure were four holes about 3mm in a line on the inlet side of the block. Anyone have any pictures? You show me yours and I will show you mine.  |
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Post by stantondavies on Oct 23, 2014 15:53:35 GMT
Hope this helps.The oil way is at the rear left viewed from front.
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kaiser
Rover Fanatic
worth his V8 in gold!
Posts: 136
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Post by kaiser on Oct 23, 2014 16:20:44 GMT
Hope this helps.The oil way is at the rear left viewed from front. I thought it looked like the rear right, but you are showing the head, upside down? |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 23, 2014 17:14:32 GMT
Actually he is - that is underneath the head face
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Post by djm16 on Oct 24, 2014 23:11:11 GMT
well that is a relief, I thought I was going mad! Definitely not one on my engine.
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kaiser
Rover Fanatic
worth his V8 in gold!
Posts: 136
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Post by kaiser on Oct 25, 2014 7:50:44 GMT
There were a, b and c versions of that engine, if I am not mistaken. The C model should be the same except for larger main bearings, introduced to minimize vibrations.
It could perhaps be that there were new oil supplies in connection with that?
It might be a good idea to provide engine numbers for the different photographs?
In any case that O-ring to me looks like the least critical O-ring I have ever seen!. There will be a range of sizes that will suffice, as basically it just needs to squash flat.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 25, 2014 8:48:18 GMT
It is not critical just a head oil drain to stop pooling and potential heavier oil consumption through suction down the inlet valve guides
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