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Post by barryr on Jan 24, 2015 0:03:08 GMT
Hi all,
After several weeks of the odd cold night in the garage I am finally reassembling my front suspension. I read all the previous items on search which helped a great deal but there is no substitute for experience.
I now have the radius rod and lower arm fitted. I've left front mounting slightly loose to give some movement and I am now trying to refit the torsion bar into the lower arm. I just can't seem to align and push it in at the same time. Is there a knack to this job?
The torsion bar is completely free in its mounting with adjustment trunnion removed and I have used cable ties to try and hold the torsion leaves tightly together but despite this it looks like a 2 person job. One to feed the leaves into the arm while someone knocks the torsion bar forwards from the rear. Any advice welcomed!
Cheers
Barry
Ps although I found fitting the replacement metalastic bushes into the various arms and mountings straightforward, I would advise others that I found the exact placement of the front bush was critical in being able to line up the bolts. When installed exactly central, there was no way the lower arm could be bolted up. Hope that helps anyone else who has same.
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Post by enigmas on Jan 24, 2015 2:28:34 GMT
Barry your description is a little bit confusing to me...re: "someone knocks the torsion bar forward from the rear." I've never done it like this...I don't even back off the bell crank adjuster at the rear of the assembly.
Slide the torsion bars into the square housing on the bell crank at the rear. Lock them together near the front with a small G clamp or similar ( I bent a piece of 1/8" x 1/4" strap front and rear of the bars and tack welded it closed so the bars are held together as an assembly)
Then fit the front suspension assembly. The car has to be well jacked up at the front and the suspension pieces clear of the ground.
That's it. Do it several times and it's like second nature.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 24, 2015 6:40:50 GMT
As above it should just push on - are the torsion bar leaves spread apart at the end and grit caught between them?
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Post by barryr on Jan 24, 2015 10:56:04 GMT
Hmm so to explain further I was unable to remove the torsion bars from the rear of the car as part of the strip down as the exhaust is in the way with the adjusting arm still attached and the arm wouldn't come off the leaves either. As they are in good order with no splits in the gaiter I elected to leave the whole bar in situ. The lower arm end is clean and I used cable ties to keep the leaves together.
So now I have the radius rod and lower arm fitted to the subframe but grabbing the torsion bar with one hand and moving the lower arm down slightly with the other to match them, you can't just shove the torsion bar in as you have the whole weight of the bar to deal with. If I align them carefully and position on a jack then move to the rear to lift the bar slightly and push, it falls out at the front!
This seems like chicken and egg. I suspect the cable ties are not man enough and a clamp or strap as you suggested will be in order.
I am certain the other side will be quicker now I better understand the workings but I have to get this side out the way first!
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Post by barryr on Jan 31, 2015 23:38:22 GMT
Sorry to bang on fellas but more help needed!
I have the front suspension back together almost - lower arm fitted with radius rod. torsion bar now fitted into lower arm and correctly registered in its rebate in the subframe but...
Even with lower arm as low as possible I need to find a way to tension the torsion bar enough to get the trunnion back in its place and the locking bolt.
Tonight I got close to getting the bolt through by using a ratchet strap round the trolley jack at the adjusting arm but I simply can't get it tight enough and the lower arm won't go any lower.
Did I do something in the wrong order here? All the other posts suggest the bar isn't under tension at this stage but mine is!
I hope I don't ever have to do this job again!
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Post by enigmas on Feb 1, 2015 2:00:46 GMT
Barry can you post some photos, the text doesn't provide enough information for a clear response to your problem.
If you have jacked the car high enough (I raise the whole front of the car off the ground, both wheels with a large trolley jack), everything goes back with a modicum of struggle. I never go near the bell crank at the rear when I'm removing the leaves or disassembling the suspension. Once the spring pack is back in place use the weight of the car to raise the lower suspension arm into place.
* You don't have the sway bar still connected, do you?
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Post by djm16 on Feb 1, 2015 12:47:52 GMT
I only managed to get the front suspension back on mine with
a) the wisbone bump stops removed and
b) the torsion bar adjust (in the cross member) adjusted to minimum road height.
Without these, the torsion bar would be under (quite a lot of) tension when the wishbone is at its lowest.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 1, 2015 13:48:44 GMT
You will find it difficult to get the rear Torsion Bar adjuster in the correct place to get the bolt started Barry without raising the Bottom Link, just be enough to get the bolt in, the Radius arm will be under pressure at this point! It should all go back together after you manage to get the adjuster back on! by simply jacking up under the Bottom Link  It will all sit high for a while just leave it and adjust when it's had a bit of use or a few mates bouncing up and down on the front bumper  |
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Post by barryr on Feb 1, 2015 21:50:38 GMT
I'll do some pics soon guys but I'm confused.
John you said raise the bottom link but I think you meant lower it?
Now I'm wondering if I'm 90 degrees out!
I'll try and post a pic. Nb no the anti roll bar is not fitted. I too found the threaded part of the radius rod slightly bent when I removed it which I think just reinforces what I'm saying re how low the bottom arm needs to be on my car to get it started.
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Post by djm16 on Feb 1, 2015 22:03:40 GMT
I put the lower wishbone on the torsion bar at the same time as feeding the radius link through the lower wishbone. Not letting off the height adjuster on the torsion bar (raising the wishbone) leads to bending of the radius link.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 2, 2015 6:42:22 GMT
I think? Barry is past that stage djm16 it's all on apart from the rear adjusters? Even if you turn the adjuster bolt to the lowest point Barry with all the suspension on yes you will be trying to bend the radius arm by forcing down the bottom link to get the bolt in. I have sent a PM Barry |
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Post by barryr on Feb 2, 2015 14:27:54 GMT
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Post by barryr on Feb 2, 2015 14:31:37 GMT
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Post by enigmas on Feb 2, 2015 22:18:31 GMT
Barry have you (mistakenly) flipped the leaf spring pack around180 degrees? The bell crank should be pointing down towards the ground. The way it currently exists, as you raise the suspension arm you're effectively trying to pull/rotate the bell crank through the floor.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 3, 2015 9:05:52 GMT
Turning the torsion 180 degrees wont help Vince, Barry has to get the 7/16" bolt in, I had a chat with him he is 1/2 a hole out, the only way is to try and pull down on the bottom link "gently" as you are trying to effectively either bend the radius arm or the chassis mounting, once the bolt is in, he should be able to fit the Trunion and the Adjuster, it should be left like that until the suspension is assembled, then it will adjust best left for a while under load or bounced on, the Torsion bar adjuster will eventually adjust ok.
If you don't take the adjusters off you don't notice this problem you make the front end do all the work.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 3, 2015 10:08:50 GMT
I've never seen it like that before John with no load on the suspension. If the individual leaf springs develop a twist/set to them over time flipping them 180 would cause that situation. If that's not the situation, then why not start from scratch again. Dissasemble the suspension arm from the leaf pack, reassemble the bell crank at it's lowest adjustment point, slide the spring pack back into the bell crank and then refit the lower suspension arm.  |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 3, 2015 10:43:19 GMT
I understand what you are saying Vince once you remove the Torsion bars you must mark everything ie grind a V across the end of all the leaves, make sure you know which way round it was fitted (front/Back), mark which side is which, then you can remove the leaves for re greasing.
I know it looks odd Vince but it will all go back as it should! Barry had turned the bars, once you disturb the Torsion Bars they can be a pain!! once you get the 7/16" bolt in and the Adjuster bolt in the Trunion you are half way there.
Barry could fit the adjuster first and start again??
I thought I had a picture of where my Adjuster Levers ended up but I can't bl**dy find it!!
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Post by enigmas on Feb 3, 2015 10:46:25 GMT
Ok  |
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Post by barryr on Feb 3, 2015 21:27:35 GMT
Thanks chaps I've been listening quietly to your responses.
I didn't remove the torsion bar from the car so it is exactly as it was. I thought the radius rod looked under pressure now so was hesitant to try and get any more lowering out of it. John has given me the confidence to put it under a bit more strain and I'll attempt that Friday. Failing that I may do as you say and strip it all down again, knock the lower arm off, set the trunnion and try again from the front. I had a lot of trouble lining up the front mount with no tension so I have no idea how doing it the other way will pan out.
All this was a pig to get off to start with. I'd read on here how there was no tension if the adjuster was cranked off but on my car there was. The threaded part of the radius rod was slightly bent so I wouldn't be surprised if someone was here before and who knows what they did.
One thing I will do is update you.
This time last jan I was drilling out the broken timing cover stud in the water jacket as you may recall. I love these long jobs!!
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 4, 2015 6:37:35 GMT
The Radius Rods more often get bent by releasing the suspension too quickly without a trolley jack etc
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Post by enigmas on Feb 4, 2015 13:04:13 GMT
Yes it's a pig of a job and I've probably done it 4 or 5 times over the years mainly replacing rotted lower suspension arm bushes prior to having the power steering box permanently cured of leaks. I also toyed with synthetic bushes in compression on the lower suspension torque arm DS (bad move...as they eventually break up) but it can be done in a day with practice. I always use the weight of the car to raise the outside end of the lower suspension arm (to twist the leaf spring pack) and then slide the lower ball joint spindle into its swivel pin (kingpin) housing. I think doing it the current way is virtually impossible as there's no way to gain any viable leverage...certainly a good way to raise your blood pressure though.  |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 4, 2015 14:34:25 GMT
Yes it's a pig of a job and I've probably done it 4 or 5 times over the years mainly replacing rotted lower suspension arm bushes prior to having the power steering box permanently cured of leaks. I also toyed with synthetic bushes in compression on the lower suspension torque arm DS (bad move...as they eventually break up) but it can be done in a day with practice. I always use the weight of the car to raise the outside end of the lower suspension arm (to twist the leaf spring pack) and then slide the lower ball joint spindle into its swivel pin (kingpin) housing. I think doing it the current way is virtually impossible as there's no way to gain any viable leverage...certainly a good way to raise your blood pressure though. I have done mine twice and 2 others each time it's a pig job on your own Vince I have explained to Barry how to get over his problem so hopefully he will get it sorted this weekend |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 4, 2015 18:51:37 GMT
I have done this loads of times but not within the last 3 years and there is a knack which only comes back when I try it again  |
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Post by barryr on Feb 4, 2015 23:04:55 GMT
Ok chaps progress! - had couple of spare hours tonight.
With john's suggestion I found a big lever (being a long handle sledgehammer I had handy)
By wedging it in the lower arm leaving the heavy head hanging down and then lying alongside the car I was able to use my foot to apply some tension to the lower arm whilst preparing to insert the locking bolt The plan being to tension the lower arm but not destroy the radius rod at the same time.
I could see this helped but it was still not enough to get the bolt in - it was really close though. After a few tries I could see this would be successful with a mate to apply a tiny bit more force but working on my own I wasn't going to get there. The operation did seem to settle the bar a little each time though so I returned to my ratchet strap method for one last try.
With a trolley jack under the subframe at the adjuster and a ratchet strap round the jack and the adjusting arm, I tensioned the strap as much as I could - still about 1mm off. Then I realised raising the jack tightened the strap more and pulled the arm down further. The locking bolt popped straight in and I had only a small amount more to jack to pop the trunnion in. Job done, very happy and the rest is flying back on now.
Thanking you all! - ratchet straps may help others!
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Post by barryr on Feb 25, 2015 23:24:57 GMT
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