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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jan 29, 2015 16:23:39 GMT
Hi all,
I know the Jensen axle is the accepted 'good' upgrade for the P5 (ie strong, lim slip diff, discs).
Does anyone know if the range rover classic rear axle is a suitable alternative? Similar width to P5, strong, cheap and easily obtainable. Not sure if it has discs though?
Maybe Warwick or Vince know a bit more about Range Rover axles as an option?
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Post by harvey on Jan 29, 2015 16:33:03 GMT
Does anyone know if the range rover classic rear axle is a suitable alternative? Similar width to P5, strong, cheap and easily obtainable. Not sure if it has discs though? It has discs, (but no provision for a handbrake on the original set-up), and uses the same diff unit, but personally I'd think it would be too wide, and it would need the hubs modified to 5 stud, and a great big section taken out of the centre of the wheel to clear the hub/halfshaft, so there wouldn't be much strength left in the wheel if any, plus it would need spring perches made and fitted as the RR is coil sprung. |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jan 29, 2015 16:38:44 GMT
I thought you had a Jenson one lurking about Roy? sorry If I have got it wrong  |
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Post by Steve P5b on Jan 29, 2015 19:12:52 GMT
Hi all, I know the Jensen axle is the accepted 'good' upgrade for the P5 (ie strong, lim slip diff, discs). Does anyone know if the range rover classic rear axle is a suitable alternative? Similar width to P5, strong, cheap and easily obtainable. Not sure if it has discs though? Maybe Warwick or Vince know a bit more about Range Rover axles as an option? Jensen axles are getting long in the tooth now and expensive Roy not too mention the extra weight and costly brake overhaul. I wasted hundreds messing about and decided to dump mine. Volvo 940 (not 960 as this is independent )is a contender with much the same width, disc brakes and a selection of ratios, LSD on some too (new spring mounts required but they'd be required on the Jensen axle anyhow) and cheap Find one here , good luck, www.volvoforums.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=176 |
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jan 29, 2015 22:08:27 GMT
I was looking for one for a long time John but the cost was too high. Not actively looking now but if something suitable came up at the right price? Sounds like the Range Rover is too much work, but I'm sure I've seen early range rover wheels on 5 stud with the same pcd?
Volvo might be worth looking into..
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Post by harvey on Jan 29, 2015 22:16:16 GMT
I'm sure I've seen early range rover wheels on 5 stud with the same pcd? They are 5 stud but the PCD and stud size is much bigger. |
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Post by enigmas on Jan 29, 2015 23:11:22 GMT
Roy, what is the reasoning behind your desire to change the complete differential unit.
Borgwarner diffs fitted to large engined Fords, GM/Holden vehicles even older Chryslers (in OZ) come with a huge selection of ratios (MGB V8s). I really don't know what is available in the UK.
There are several ways you can go about this, but there's a cost associated with all options.
Find a basically compatible diff (correct width) with discs, cut off the existing mounts then weld on the Rover mounts, ensuring that the pinion angle is correct. Adapt your hand brake mechanism. Retain the new rear wheel PCD and have the front hubs altered to suit. This should allow a large range of modern alloy wheel/tyre options.
Option 2.
Have a Borgwarner diff centre with the appropriate gears fitted with the Rover half shafts and side axle tubes. This retains your original brakes/handbrake mechanism and PCD. You can fit Jag MK2 brakes and early Mercedes solid rear discs and retain the original hand brake mechanism, just needing to slightly lengthen the arms of the bell crank to increase leverage on the handbrake rods to the calipers.
The engineering to the modified diff housing is costly and not DIY as the Rover side gears and axles are retained. Fitting the discs is DYI with some machining and fabrication.
Option 3.
Fit the separate overdrive unit that John designed.
Option 4.
Fit the ZF 4 speed overdrive.
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jan 30, 2015 13:43:45 GMT
Roy, what is the reasoning behind your desire to change the complete differential unit.quote] |
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jan 30, 2015 13:48:58 GMT
Im not planning on doing anything right now, but its nice to consider future changes. The reasoning behind my question is that the P5 axle is relatively weak for the weight of the car and power from the engine. Its fairly easily destroyed by spirited driving or an increase in engine power (from a friends experience who is on his 3rd diff). In time I'll be looking to put a more powerful engine in place and at that time I'd be looking at the gearbox and brakes as well (another weak point).
So yes finding a suitable strong axle, similar width, decent brakes would be the aim. I just wondered if anyone knew of anything suitable that could be used for reference.
Johns O/Drive (when available) is a great idea if you are looking to retain original engine and power and want to do more motorway driving..
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Jan 30, 2015 20:28:07 GMT
Milestone, I'm a little surprised by your post. I've asked for some alternative options to give a stronger and/or improved alternative to the 'relatively' weak P5 rear axle. I've put it on the modified section of the forum. I'd much prefer a suggestion for a different axle to someone saying the axle and brakes aren't weak (yes they are for a modified Rover)and that you wouldn't do major modifications! Not really helpful to the thread? Not having a pop but the thread isn't about keeping the car standard! |
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Post by enigmas on Jan 30, 2015 21:57:21 GMT
Roy having read the following threads perhaps you should visit some hot rod engineering builders. These guys have a wealth of experience with fitting alternate drive trains that live comfortably with big engines and lots of torque. If your doing this why not locate the rear end properly with a 4 link, pan hard rod and coil overs, for both a smooth ride and well controlled assembly. Here's a link to a nicely modified Leyland P76. It retains most of its original transmission but upgraded including the BW35. (The gearbox in OZ was progressively upgrade into the mid 80s) The diff in the car is the original Borg Warner but fitted with 3.23 gears instead of the factory 2.9:1 with discs added (originally drums) Note: This is the diff centre in my car but utilizing the P5 axles and axle casings. It's been in the car for 20 years and manages the torque of the 4.4 engine just fine. www.leylandp76.com/private/vic/motivator.html |
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Post by Simon H on Jan 30, 2015 22:05:37 GMT
It's quite ironic that in the days when I did V8 conversions to series Land Rovers P5B diffs were much sought after. I had to make do with 3.9:1 classic Rangey diffs to up the gearing. The Landy half shafts were the weak link with a V8 up front. Nobody has yet mentioned that the Rangey diff isn't in the middle of the axle... I would imagine Jensen axles are as rare as hens teeth. What about looking at a Rolls Royce for an axle after the banger boys have finished with it?
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Post by bissmire on Feb 1, 2015 19:56:55 GMT
I have a ford 9 inch in my P5B with a truetrac L.S.D and discs brakes. Went straight in, didnt even need to adjust the prop length. Will handle any power you throw at it. Pop up on ebay with disc brakes for around 350/450 notes. Job done. Mark at Wisbech Engineering did the work for me...Which was excellent.
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Post by bissmire on Feb 1, 2015 20:04:34 GMT
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kaiser
Rover Fanatic
worth his V8 in gold!
Posts: 136
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Post by kaiser on Feb 1, 2015 20:19:18 GMT
I read with interest that the Rover rear axle is "relatively" weak.
I have no idea if you are right, but to me it looks like an item that never gives trouble.
has anyone, ever, had a problem with the axle?
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Post by enigmas on Feb 2, 2015 10:57:53 GMT
It seems like you've got some plans in the works Bismire? That's a nice installation. Very neat. It should ride nicely too. It doesn't look like the 4 bar links are triangulated from the pictures. Does it utilize a panhard rod or Watts linkage? One last question what ratio did you settle on?
With this type of upgrade I imagine you're going to transplant something with serious cubic inches.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 2, 2015 11:34:39 GMT
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Feb 2, 2015 13:53:23 GMT
I have a ford 9 inch in my P5B with a truetrac L.S.D and discs brakes. Went straight in, didnt even need to adjust the prop length. Will handle any power you throw at it. Pop up on ebay with disc brakes for around 350/450 notes. Job done. Mark at Wisbech Engineering did the work for me...Which was excellent. Bissmire, I very much admired the conversion to your car and if I had the cheque book I certainly would be looking at a specialist to make the conversion for me. I really hope to see it through the year at a Rover show somewhere.. I lack the technical expertise to make the conversion (with 4 link etc) at the current time, but I'd still like to make plans. Regarding my car, I have a diff that is knocking heavily on alternate braking/accelerating and on the change down when coming to a stop. ( I have ruled out the prop by replacing all joints and bushes). I have had a replacement diff reconditioned which I will fit this year, but I'd like to be considering my next move should it go bang (when enjoying the rear wheel drive). Plans are to fit my spare 4 speed auto from a Monza GSE and larger capacity engine. I do have a centrifugal supercharger which is a consideration but I'll make that decision when choosing normal or low compression pistons for the engine. If I had to pay someone to make these changes, they simply wouldn't get done, so for a home mechanic these are possible. An axle swap is a huge safety issue and I would only do it under supervision (or get the cheque book out)!! |
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Post by Roy of the Rovers on Feb 2, 2015 13:57:49 GMT
Here is another option (Nodsmods Lexus V8 P5B project ) if anyone recalls. (Look in the modified vehicle section) Note: The fitting of the Lexus V8, the rack and pinion steering and the XJS Jaguar front suspension was Neal's work. The fitting of the alternate leaf spring suspension and the shackles is the work of another company. The standard of the work was/is well below Neal's work but it does illustrate an alternative. I wish Neal lived just down the road ! I went to see Burnham Autos a few years ago about sourcing and fitting a convertible roof to my convertible, the cost was astronomical! I know if it was easy everyone would do it.. but its a reason I haven't been to see the hotrod guys  Thanks for the good suggestions all |
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Post by bissmire on Mar 18, 2015 18:07:00 GMT
It seems like you've got some plans in the works Bismire? That's a nice installation. Very neat. It should ride nicely too. It doesn't look like the 4 bar links are triangulated from the pictures. Does it utilize a panhard rod or Watts linkage? One last question what ratio did you settle on? With this type of upgrade I imagine you're going to transplant something with serious cubic inches. Sorry for the late reply been off the grid, so to speak. Yes the four link is triangulated so no panhard bar or watts required. As I still have the rover lump and box I went for a 3.50 ratio. |
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Post by bissmire on Mar 18, 2015 18:19:28 GMT
I have a ford 9 inch in my P5B with a truetrac L.S.D and discs brakes. Went straight in, didnt even need to adjust the prop length. Will handle any power you throw at it. Pop up on ebay with disc brakes for around 350/450 notes. Job done. Mark at Wisbech Engineering did the work for me...Which was excellent. Bissmire, I very much admired the conversion to your car and if I had the cheque book I certainly would be looking at a specialist to make the conversion for me. I really hope to see it through the year at a Rover show somewhere.. I lack the technical expertise to make the conversion (with 4 link etc) at the current time, but I'd still like to make plans. Regarding my car, I have a diff that is knocking heavily on alternate braking/accelerating and on the change down when coming to a stop. ( I have ruled out the prop by replacing all joints and bushes). I have had a replacement diff reconditioned which I will fit this year, but I'd like to be considering my next move should it go bang (when enjoying the rear wheel drive). Plans are to fit my spare 4 speed auto from a Monza GSE and larger capacity engine. I do have a centrifugal supercharger which is a consideration but I'll make that decision when choosing normal or low compression pistons for the engine. If I had to pay someone to make these changes, they simply wouldn't get done, so for a home mechanic these are possible. An axle swap is a huge safety issue and I would only do it under supervision (or get the cheque book out)!! Yeah hopefully I'll get to to the big p5 meet this year, as I was on holiday for the last one. Funny enough I get a little knock from the rear axle when coming to a stop, I read a post some time ago that mentioned adjusting your choke and idle speed to cure the issue? |
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Post by harvey on Mar 18, 2015 18:27:34 GMT
Funny enough I get a little knock from the rear axle when coming to a stop, I read a post some time ago that mentioned adjusting your choke and idle speed to cure the issue? A clonk on the 2-1 downshift with a closed throttle can be the kickdown cable adjustment. |
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Post by bissmire on Mar 22, 2015 9:18:57 GMT
Thank you.
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Post by bramrover on Jan 12, 2020 14:22:47 GMT
Do you have more pictures about the 4 link system? Like how the front end of the 4 link system is fitted to the car? |
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