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Post by p5tgc on Apr 24, 2005 10:06:20 GMT
This is an item raised before (on the old board) but has anyone found an alternative source of bright metal trims to use as sill trims on the P5B?
I note that "Adam" was fitted with trims made using Rolls Royce parts, but this does seem a bit "over the top", is there a more accessible donor? has anyone investigated the possibility of remanufacture?
regards
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Post by dorsetflyer on Apr 25, 2005 16:18:20 GMT
I think it's a good point raised Trevor. It seems that nowadays sill trims are like hensteeth to get hold of. Now is the time I think that the club should investigate the possibility of these items being re-manufactured for the benefit of members. What spoils a superb restoration job on our members cars is the missing trims, or ones which in the past have been drilled to take a self tapper.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2005 16:55:57 GMT
:DI agree entirely although perhaps a joint venture with one of the spares supplier could split the risk?
This is just the sort of thing a club should promote
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Post by Smallfry on Apr 25, 2005 17:24:25 GMT
Even as we speak, I am getting quotes for the remanufacture of sill trims, and also for the air intake grille under the screen. Dont hold your breath though ! The costs are pretty high
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Post by richard eglinton on Apr 25, 2005 18:29:05 GMT
I raised this issue some time ago as I couldn't see the point of a club supplying easily obtainable items such as filters and belts when really rare items are almost impossible to get. I have seen some really good restorations which are let down by the absence of the trim.The purpose of its introduction,with the painted black sill on the p5b, was to reduce the slab appearance of the car from a side view and make the car look sleeker than the p5.The function of the trim on the coupe is even more important.As 20627 p5bs were built that must mean that 41254 trims at one point existed plus spares.Where on earth have they all gone?Allowing for scrapped cars and survivors that must mean that 1000's have simply fallen off and await discovery by the road side The holding clips are the same as for the body stripes and rust quickly and the failure of these clips spelt the end for most sill trim. The trim is also easily damaged and does not fit the new clips,hence the self tapper and that assumes there is any sill left to attach it to!! I will guard my pair with my life richard
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Post by PeterMadden on Apr 25, 2005 19:09:58 GMT
Richard raises a very valid point about spares and club supplies. Things like oil filters and the like have only been supplied when the club has been offered stock at prices we considered to be advantageous to members we have never actively sourced service items. Even items like the track rod ends the club had remanufactured by Quniton Hazel came about after an opportunity presented itself.
Nick Mathias did do some work on the remanufacture of sill trims some time ago, but it came to nothing at that time. One question the committee has asked itself many times is whether the committee should commit members money to parts which are ultimately cosmetic and do not affect a cars roadworthiness. Different members will of course have different views.
If Smallfry wishes the club to consider the results of his enquiries, assuming he doesn't wish to proceed with remanufacture himself, he is welcome to forward them to me and I will raise them at the next committee meeting (next one is May).
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Post by Smallfry on Apr 25, 2005 20:49:09 GMT
While we are on the subject......what other things do you guys think would be a benefit to remanufacture ? They obviously have to be something that virtually every car needs, and is not available generally.
The problem with anything mechanical to do with the running gear, is that it would have to be of the correct material specification, which is now difficult to find out, and also that any new safety related items would have to have type approval and destructive testing etc etc, which will cost as much as having the parts remanufactured in the first place.
Most of the body seems well served by repair panels, but do they actually fit properly, and look like the original metalwork ?
The rear deck, behind the rear screen looks a good bet, as does the inner rear valence, and rear chassis legs complete. The trouble is, I doubt if many would want to pay a reasonable price for this type of stuff to make it worthwhile.
This leaves brightwork and trim. What do you think ?
Anything can be done, and anything is possible, but in the end, it all comes down to what the cars are worth, and what owners are prepared to spend on them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2005 21:02:40 GMT
The problem is that many owners are not prepared to spend too much on them as "its only an old car".
The few that are are too few to make a viable product
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Allan NZ P5b
Rover Fanatic
1971 p5b Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 255
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Post by Allan NZ P5b on Apr 25, 2005 21:05:27 GMT
These trims don't seem too hard to get in New Zealand. My car had them and so do most I have seen I will see if more are avaliable here might re export to the UK. As we don't have as big a problem with rust in sills perhaps more have survived?
Regards
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Post by roedmose on May 6, 2005 15:44:41 GMT
My coupe is also missing these trims and has the sills painted in the cars color as well. I looked into James Taylors book, but there is no good picture of the trim and its position. The trim will be impossible to source here as well, but as I attend a lot of auto jumbles and know some dealers in scrap parts I wondered if I could find something that could match fairly. And just glue them in position with siliconcompound. So I wondered : can anyone publish some close-up photos so we can see the starting/ending/horisontal position of this trim. And with a ruler so we can see the dimensions ? I dont care that much if it is not a perfect match, if I source something, as the chances of meeting anyone that knows is next to nothing. And if I go to UK I will just remove them before, so I can avoid the laughs !!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2005 16:24:56 GMT
Its the length thats the problem - they are the same in section to the P5B side strips and use the same clips. They are seen fitted upside down. Its surprising how many are seen in this way or them missing, screwed on, or at the wrong level with or without the correct satin black under finish - doies it really matter in the end I had toyed with idea of welding two side trims end end and repolishing but its really too thin to disguise the join properly. Someone once said Renualt 25 ones were almost as long but these are even rarer!
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Post by Smallfry on May 6, 2005 20:51:53 GMT
Someone said that a guy called Nick Mathias had some work done on this ? What happened and what was the end result ? Does anyone know ? Can he still be contacted ?
I have found a company that will take the job on (they say) but I now need a pattern. Unfortunately I dont have any, so does anyone have one....or two, that they would be prepared to sell/donate ? You will of course get them back, provided that I do, and if anything comes of it, a nice shiny new pair too ! They dont need to be pristine, they can be scratched, bent or crushed, provided that the profile and any bends can be seen. The ends have to be good though.
I need to know if.......
a. They are handed
b. Are they flat, or do they have a slight bend in the middle like the sill does ?
c. What is the EXACT length.
d. How the ends are finished.
e. I dont suppose that anyone would know the material specification........does anyone have the factory drawings by any chance ? If not, we will just have to guess !
f. If I can get a half decent pattern, I will get them to do some stainless retaining clips too.
Any thoughts ?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2005 21:29:20 GMT
Nick Mathias is the clubs spares officer - I have never heard of any investigation
a. They are handed b. I cannot see that they are bent in the middle - they are probably flexible enough to accommodate the sill curve? c. 74" precisely in length d. As I said the profile is the same as the P5B side strips and one end is flat the other end which goes to the front is the same sloping end as the front end of the side trim for the front wings but the other way up!
The plastic clips are better anyway and are readiy obtainable.
They are not particularly high quality stainless as they do rust stain.
They do look good although probably more trouble than they are worth.
Over to you then
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Post by Roy Fellingham on May 23, 2005 13:55:41 GMT
I have a pair which I am quite happy for you to use to make patterns from BUT 1) They must be returned to me 2) They must be in the same condition I sent them! 3) A shiny new pair when they are available is agreeable! Roy member 1852 if necessary email me on rov3r atntlworlddotcom. or leave a note here
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Post by richard eglinton on May 23, 2005 17:45:36 GMT
I hope this idea succeeds as they do make a huge difference to the car. No restoration is complete without this important finishing touch and I would order a spare set. Richard
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Post by David on May 23, 2005 19:45:03 GMT
The sill trims were not progressed, though seriously considered and investigated by Nick Mathias, who spent a lot of time tracking down original drawings. The drawings showed they were constructed to a slight curve and angle. The costs were prohibitive and not considered important enough for the club to remanufacture. The philosophy of the spares servcice was set up to supply items that would be part of a potential MOT failure. Sill trims I agree are cosmetically important, but not mechanically necessary.
Without trying to pre-empt anything here, the subject of tyres (definately an MOT potential) were discussed at Saturdays ciommittee and reps meeting. These are being actively investigated as we 'speak'.
HTH
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 23, 2005 21:41:52 GMT
;)Tyres (radial of course) are an essential item and the correct 185x15 at a reasonable price are becoming difficult to find
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Post by Smallfry on May 23, 2005 22:11:41 GMT
Tyres are easily obtained from North Hants Tyres. If they can't help you, you may as well give up ! Vintage, classic, whitewalls, American......whatever you want. www.northhantstyre.co.uk (Sorry I'm no good at creating links !) Unfortunately, because of low usage nowadays, 185x15 are always going to be expensive relative to more modern sizes. Peter.......Do you mean that the commitee are considering either buying, or commisioning a batch of tyres ?
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Post by Smallfry on May 23, 2005 22:23:31 GMT
Roy......
Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I cannot guarantee your first two requirements, so I am going to buy some from somewhere to use for a pattern. Then no one is going to get upset !
Until the finished article is to my complete satisfaction, (and I am a fussy illigitimate) I cannot guarantee your third requirement either !
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Post by David on May 24, 2005 8:14:58 GMT
Geoff Arthur (Promotional Car Register Officer) has been and is continuing to investigated the tyre situation.
If anyone here has a source of 185's then PLEASE let him knowat email: car-register@roverp5club.org.uk
Without wishing to take any of his thunder, Geoff found the only place currrently supplying new tyres is the Vintage Tyre Company on the south coast - cost is £110 each. Hence the reason why the committee sanctioned investigation in to remanufacturing the correct tyres for CLUB MEMBERS ONLY.
This was discussed at length with the five regional reps who turned up on Saturday.
HTH
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Post by adrian50 on May 24, 2005 9:01:54 GMT
It is my experience that a club trying to get tyres remade for their own members, is on a hiding to nothing. I know that the Aston Martin Owners Club involvment in securing tyres for its members left Aston Martin holding stock of tyres (more suited to comfort than speed0 at £700 each (Pirelli). The stock has taken many years to run down - hugely expensive for all concerned....... Why not 'club' together with a tyre specialist to remake a tyre and let them market it for any cars that will wear that size? EG Aston DB5 will accept 185r15 but they would not like the Vredestein tread pattern (not sporty enough) This is a whole can of worms......... Remember . small volume productions mean higher unit costs, if larger quantities are remade, unit prices fall.
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Post by David on May 24, 2005 10:40:31 GMT
Adrian
All those point you made are valid and were discussed on Saturday both at committee and with the reps input. Everyone considered the matter and felt it worthwhile investigating further.
The logistics/cost/practicality of such an undertaking with all be carefully considered before any commitment of club funds are made.
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Post by Roy Fellingham on May 24, 2005 11:38:50 GMT
I have emailed the tyre details as requested and started a new thread with the details. £60 each hows that for new tyres?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 24, 2005 20:56:33 GMT
;)Good price and very good tyres and I used them a lot in the past but Kumo's used to cost only £40-£45 but even £60 is better than Vintage Tyres prices
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Post by DanielSheard on May 25, 2005 7:41:32 GMT
Smallfry, I have a spare set of trims which have been butchered by having holes drilled in them. If you want these to use as a pattern (withoutt he holes) let me know.
I bought some Mk3 3 litre trims from a scrapyard in Lincolnshire and had them welded. The welder did a good job and they look the part, but he made them half an inch too short despite me having given him exact measurements. A little annoying.
Daniel
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