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Post by enigmas on Oct 19, 2016 9:59:33 GMT
Looking good Peter! You're providing plenty of reference material for anyone considering this option (including me).
Could you provide the kick down cable measurement from the at rest (idling) ferrule position, to the full throttle and kickdown position, i.e. how far the inner cable is pulled out of the outer cable from idle to full throttle and then kickdown?
NB. Peter are you aware of the issues with the front A clutch on these boxes and if so, what have you done to counter the problem? There can also be an issue with the sprag (one way clutch)
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Post by petervdvelde on Oct 19, 2016 20:56:33 GMT
Thanks John,
I know that way to much but the only banjo bolts and hoses they had were the industrial high pressure ones. The hoses are rather stiff too so i had to cut the pipes accurate. But it will last. For my project Rover i will try to source thinner hoses and banjo bolts.
Thanks Vince,
I have read that on the Ashcroft site and concluded that these problems are more common where a bigger or a more powerfull were fitted. I will measure the stroke of the KD cable and let you know.
Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on Oct 27, 2016 20:35:18 GMT
Finalized fitting all components and did some test drives. The ZF box transforms the car in a very positive way. Shifting from gear to gear is much smoother than with the BW35 and the best improvement for me is that the revs at 120km/hr are much lower which really improves the driving experience. Although the engine with BW35 cooped well with the 3500-4000 revs it just didn't feel good for me and the V8 doesn't need it. With the ZF, it feels identical to the RV8 with LT77 in my MGB conversion and this is very relaxed. I believe the speedo shows a too low speed so i need to have a comparison with the SAT NAV but i have the feeling that the revs dropped to the 2600 which feels very comfortable.
The amount of work to do the conversion is considerable but my first feeling is that it is worth it.
Peter
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 28, 2016 7:32:20 GMT
It should be the same as mine Peter at 70 mph it is 2600 rpm
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Post by enigmas on Oct 28, 2016 10:17:32 GMT
What is the overdrive ratio in your car John? (I know you've got a laycock overdrive behind your BW35.)
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 28, 2016 11:44:29 GMT
Hi Vince the one on the car now is 25% the new one which will be fitted next year is 28% which should drop the revs to 2500 at 70!
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Post by enigmas on Oct 28, 2016 13:23:50 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong John, but your current setup equates to a 2.65 diff ratio in overdrive. If that's the case, it's a very tall ratio to pull.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 28, 2016 18:13:22 GMT
That's about right vince you cant look at it as a permanent ratio as like most OD you don't engage them until the car reaches 50 mph so there is no problem at least I haven't had one
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Oct 28, 2016 18:36:42 GMT
Finalized fitting all components and did some test drives. The ZF box transforms the car in a very positive way. Shifting from gear to gear is much smoother than with the BW35 and the best improvement for me is that the revs at 120km/hr are much lower which really improves the driving experience. Although the engine with BW35 cooped well with the 3500-4000 revs it just didn't feel good for me and the V8 doesn't need it. With the ZF, it feels identical to the RV8 with LT77 in my MGB conversion and this is very relaxed. I believe the speedo shows a too low speed so i need to have a comparison with the SAT NAV but i have the feeling that the revs dropped to the 2600 which feels very comfortable. The amount of work to do the conversion is considerable but my first feeling is that it is worth it. Peter Well done Peter, great work as always. It would be nice to know some MPG /KPL figures you achieve from it now. What's next on the list?
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Post by enigmas on Oct 28, 2016 22:28:53 GMT
John, I thought that your existing 'final' ratio would be tall enough for viable cruising without the motor struggling. The only cars in OZ that ran ratios that low, albeit with 3 speed automatics were 1970s Fords powered by stump pulling 351ci Fords. Non of them were aero dynamic...much like a P5.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 29, 2016 9:10:43 GMT
The car doesn't struggle "at all" vince engaging it at 45-50 there is no indication it is engaged apart from the instant drop in revs! Peter's conversion will produce the same result, the beauty of having a separate OD is you have the choice of when to use it! When the 2.8-1 diffs were being recommended I could replicate the ratio near enough as the OD will engage in all gears and it was far too tall for a standard 3.5 when under load ie hills etc, I can leave the OD in and drop down the Auto Box which gives another gear!
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Post by enigmas on Oct 29, 2016 10:23:59 GMT
The diff ratio in my car is 2.9:1 John. I had it modified many years ago for the reason Peter added his ZF. My engine is a litre larger in capacity than a standard P5B, so it manages well, but the option of a modern 4 speed auto still appeals to me. First gear is also lower (higher numerically) and the ZF box more responsive. I think that a 2.8:1 ratio on a standard P5B would kill it's performance as the gear ratios become too wide spread on a 3 speed...torque convertor or not.
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Post by petervdvelde on Oct 29, 2016 22:38:21 GMT
/quote]Well done Peter, great work as always. It would be nice to know some MPG /KPL figures you achieve from it now. What's next on the list? [/quote]
Thanks Andy,
It was a pleasure dealing with you. The ZF box looks great and seems to work fine and thanks for the quick response to my questions by e-mail. In the past, i never looked carefully at MPG figures so no information from the past. I can have a look at current MPG but i doubt if that is interesting info for you as my car runs on LPG which has lower MPG than petrol. It must improve with the ZF box. For me the most important advantage by far is the lower revs followed by the much smoother shifting.
Next on the list: the car is on axle stands this weekend to check the underseal. A few weeks ago, i removed the underseal from the splash panels near the front inner wings because it was rather loose and showed some surface rust. Cleaned with with a rotating wire brush, put some primer and paint on it and new underseal. Now i am checking the rest of the car. I also want to remove the SS trim to give the clips a Tectyl treatment.
Then i have to finalize the interior. The rear seats aren't fully ready yet and i need to do the rear parcel shelf and fit rear seat belts
Also on the list for are overhauling the rear axle, fitting a Volvo steering box as mine started to leak and painting/powdercoating the subframe and suspension components.
Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on Oct 29, 2016 22:41:04 GMT
The car doesn't struggle "at all" vince engaging it at 45-50 there is no indication it is engaged apart from the instant drop in revs! Peter's conversion will produce the same result, the beauty of having a separate OD is you have the choice of when to use it! When the 2.8-1 diffs were being recommended I could replicate the ratio near enough as the OD will engage in all gears and it was far too tall for a standard 3.5 when under load ie hills etc, I can leave the OD in and drop down the Auto Box which gives another gear! John, Do you know how many P5B have the OD? Peter
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 30, 2016 8:08:36 GMT
The car doesn't struggle "at all" vince engaging it at 45-50 there is no indication it is engaged apart from the instant drop in revs! Peter's conversion will produce the same result, the beauty of having a separate OD is you have the choice of when to use it! When the 2.8-1 diffs were being recommended I could replicate the ratio near enough as the OD will engage in all gears and it was far too tall for a standard 3.5 when under load ie hills etc, I can leave the OD in and drop down the Auto Box which gives another gear! John, Do you know how many P5B have the OD? Peter That's easy only one fitted so far Peter when I take the one off I am using at the moment there may be another the original prototype was sold a long while ago as far as I know it's not been fitted yet?
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Post by harvey on Oct 30, 2016 14:37:46 GMT
the original prototype was sold a long while ago as far as I know it's not been fitted yet? You are correct, it's not been fitted yet.
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Post by petervdvelde on May 13, 2017 22:35:26 GMT
Gone through this Thread from the start today.....d**n your good. I stripped my Mini down but would't do it to the Rover. I think I've said this before. I tried to have him banned from the forum, but they wouldn't do it. He makes me feel inadequate. cheers Oz. The P5 is a nice car to restore apart from the bodywork which is complex. Mechanically it is designed and build very solid with most of the parts being so strong these will outlive the car but the quantity of parts used is huge. Had a look at your Mini project. Its a nice job you are doing and it is amazing to see a almost rust free shell. We can only dream about that! Apologizes Warwick Did some work on the Rover. As all the painted panels had to be stored, the engine had to give up its corner in the workshop so it was time to reunite this with the car. I rebuild it which was described in a previous thread roverp5.proboards.com/thread/7363/v8-engine-rebuild. The BW35 was removed in favor of a 4ZF box from and LDV which i bought in Ireland and was overhauled by Ashcroft in 2015. Before fitting engine and box to the car, i needed to match the Rover shifter to the 4ZF and make a kick down cable bracket on the manifold. I sourced a sh shifter cable as this has the right bracket on the box. Underneath a picture of the LDV cable For the Rover the lever on the box should be on the upper side and also had to be changed Modified the LDV lever to the correct angle and concerted it into a clevis type lever Made a cardboard template of the bracket near the shifter ] and copied it into 2mm thick stainless sheet. Made it a little wide then the one on my daily Rover as there was hardly enough room to tighten the nut on the cable with a spanner. Also made a bracket for the kick down cable which is different from the Rover ones as i will be using the LDV inlet manifold as i prefer the later SU's Tested the shifter assembly and it wasn't very smooth. I believe the XJ40 cable is shorter then the S-type cable i used on my daily Rover and therefore makes (too) tight curves. Made a bracket to kind of lengthen the cable which improved the shifting but still not as smooth as on my daily Rover. Decided to see if this would be improved when fitted to the car. Fitted some protection to avoid scratches on the paiont Then there was the big moment! All went well and now it looks like the assembly made a huge step. Enjoy the assembly of the Rover very much. This is the cream on the cake in the restoration process. Peter
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Post by petervdvelde on May 22, 2017 21:32:51 GMT
Will repost the pictures of the fitting of the engine to avoid a gap in the thread Fitted some protection to avoid scratches on the paiont Then there was the big moment! The engine and 4ZF box ready to be united with the car. All went well and now it looks like the assembly made a huge step. Fitted the PAS pump which got new bearings and seals and the starter motor which was also overhauled but not visible on the picture. I wanted to fit relays for the main, dip and fog lights and wanted period relays so the idea was to fit 3 6RA relays. The relays were dismantled, housing got a new coat of zinc. After clean the contact with fine sanding paper and a functional check the relays were assembled. All 6 relays i had functioned fine so these should be good for another 40 years Then looked for a suitable position and made a bracket to fit these and wired it all up, including the parts for the altternator controls also connected the wires to the alternator, starter and starter relay and made a start with sorting the wiring in the "cockpit" Peter
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