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Post by geoff53 on Oct 13, 2018 8:45:12 GMT
Hi all
The steering on my P5 mk2 3 litre saloon doesn’t feel right,it has power steering which appears to work fine and it has the wandering feel that I fully expected, but it appears to have some tight spots ! When you turn it feels free but then it feels like it tightens up and you have to pull it through it’s motion, it then goes free again then on turning circle it feels like it has tight spots ? I’m not expecting positive steering as rack / pinion etc as many yrs ago I ran a P4 100 as my daily driver.
But it just doesn’t feel right, my thinking it’s in the box and not the power side of it ?
All I have done so far is top the power reservoir up, but it needed very little, I believe there is a filter that I can change, but as much as that would be a good thing to do, not sure it will help this issue much.
I hope I have explained this issue in a way that makes sense to someone ?
Any advice greatly received to add to my winter list of jobs.
Regards Geoff
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 13, 2018 10:24:48 GMT
Hi all The steering on my P5 mk2 3 litre saloon doesn’t feel right,it has power steering which appears to work fine and it has the wandering feel that I fully expected, but it appears to have some tight spots ! When you turn it feels free but then it feels like it tightens up and you have to pull it through it’s motion, it then goes free again then on turning circle it feels like it has tight spots ? I’m not expecting positive steering as rack / pinion etc as many yrs ago I ran a P4 100 as my daily driver. But it just doesn’t feel right, my thinking it’s in the box and not the power side of it ? All I have done so far is top the power reservoir up, but it needed very little, I believe there is a filter that I can change, but as much as that would be a good thing to do, not sure it will help this issue much. I hope I have explained this issue in a way that makes sense to someone ? Any advice greatly received to add to my winter list of jobs. Regards Geoff Hi Geoff first check the belt is not slipping if it is that will explain your notchy feel, on left lock the box needs the highest pressure so if the belt is slipping it will be more noticeable. I don't share the wandering feel if the box is set up correctly it is fine but will never feel the same as a rack and pinion, I have found the boxes are often over tightened or set up sloppy! If the pump and belt are ok? you may have a split seal on/in the Spool? |
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Post by djm16 on Oct 13, 2018 11:16:35 GMT
It is a good idea to start from basics, lifting a front wheel off the ground and shaking it vigourously to see how many ball joints have developed play. Check for the correct wheel bearing play too. My 3-litre also does not wander, so check the tracking. I bet it is toed-out because of a worn ball jt. Check the box for tightness with the engine off and both front wheels off the ground. Don't leave it jacked up or the rubber suspension bushings will be damaged. If you really. really have play in the box, after installing all new ball jts  then a small amount of adjustment is possible with a screwdriver to the large slotted rod end stickign out the top of the box. Don't try winding it out more than a couple of turns as it will end up hard against the top of the box. Good luck! |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Oct 13, 2018 12:16:05 GMT
then a small amount of adjustment is possible with a screwdriver to the large slotted rod end stickign out the top of the box. Don't try winding it out more than a couple of turns as it will end up hard against the top of the box. Good luck! The Worm adjuster should never IMHO be adjusted with all the linkages and Steering Column connected it's best adjusted using the pitman arm with the fluid drained a 5 to 10 degree adjustment on the worm screw is enough to make the box lock up if adjusted incorrectly! |
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Post by geoff53 on Oct 17, 2018 14:07:17 GMT
Thanks all will keep you posted on progress
Regards
Geoff
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Post by 3litrekiwi on Apr 16, 2019 20:06:32 GMT
I also have this issue. When I bought my car it had some major leaks that were resolved by fitting new hoses however after driving for half an hour or so I could notice a notchy feeling when turning left. Driving further eventually the power assistance would be lost completely. I bought a new steering box from our local club for $80NZ (bargain) and have fitted that. Unfortunately it seems to have a similar issue turning right! I have a kit so intend refurbishing the original. Neither box leaks significantly. Any advice would be great.
Cheers
Martin
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Post by djm16 on Apr 18, 2019 0:55:32 GMT
You bought a "new" box for $80?
I am not talking to you! My rebuild cost $700.
As has already been pointed out above, the notchiness and lack of power assistance is most likely due to a slipping fan belt. I am assuming your PAS pump is mounted on the back of the generator.
You do also need some revs to operate the power steering, a 400 rpm idle will not do it!
Empty reservoir would cause this too, as would blocked fluid lines.
There is a filter in the reservoir, replace it by all means when you have the problem, but to block the filter and starve the PAS pump there would need to be a monumental amount of crud in it.
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Post by enigmas on Apr 18, 2019 8:31:27 GMT
David the power steering assistance shouldn't be affected by low RPM (idle speed)...but 400 rpm is way too low for idle even on a 3 litre.
Notchiness with the power steering box (at centre) is due the the 'fine' adjuster on the top of the steering box being tighten too much. This adjustment is extremely sensitive and needs to be adjusted in fractions of an inch or in small degrees.
The box has a worm and peg arrangement so the play can never really be dialed out completely without inducing stiction at centre. The worm and peg arrangement induces load on a 'spool' within when turning left or right...this then distributes fluid under high pressure to either side of a piston arrangement which applies force to the pitman arm resulting in power steering.
If the spool inside is not properly set up or it's seals are suspect power assistance to the left or right can be compromised, eg., turning one way will have assistance and turning the other either none or partial.
There are some very competent individuals on this forum who know the workings of the PAS box inside out.
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Post by 3litrekiwi on Apr 18, 2019 23:43:40 GMT
Thanks, I have just received a new filter from Wadhams so that will go in this week. I will also check the belt tension however I hadn't noticed the generator light coming on which would have indicated the belt slipping however I haven't been looking so may have missed it. The "new" box is obviously used however there were two to choose from and this one feels really nice with no bearing or other untoward noises or vibrations on the bench. It also had a felt seal on the output shaft that had no sign of ever having had oil on it so this may have been refurbished prior to going into storage however I have no history. I had thought that for the filter to be blocked something else would need to be failing in a big way but the car sat in a museum for 10 years and subsequently did about 100 miles per year for the next 10 years so everything was suffering from lack of use. All the radiator hoses were leaking at the joints as they were so hard and so on. The belts look ok but perhaps the surfaces have hardened, I will put a new belt on too as this and the filter are a lot less work than refurbishing the box. The car also has no syncro in second gear so that is a job I would rather tackle if possible. I have it booked in for its WOF (MOT) on Tuesday so will see how that goes. The new box is not too bad once you get going. A spare gearbox came with the car so the intention is to have a look at that and probably replace the bearings prior to installing it however I will do a search or start a new thread if I need advice on that.
Cheers Martin
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 19, 2019 9:37:15 GMT
Martin there is no way you cam tell on a bench if a box is ok! standing for a long time dry will mean the O rings and seals will be hard. There is no felt seal on the OP shaft it is a Quad Seal which will also need replacing.
From your previous post the Spool will have to be removed, new O rings and set up, care in assembly is important as the Valve Springs and Shims can pop out of place and you can still assemble it, and it can lead to all sorts of problems.
Don't set up the Peg from the steering shaft it must be done from the Pitman Arm, 5 degrees on the adjuster can make a big difference!
Drop me a PM if you get stuck.
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Post by 3litrekiwi on May 3, 2019 9:24:18 GMT
Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I am going to live with the steering box for the time being. The car failed it's WOF for rear spring rubbers but that was all. They are currently on the way from Wadhams.
What I would like a bit of advice on is my gearbox. It is a bit rumbly when in neutral, has no syncro in second gear and is a bit leaky. A spare came with the car and this weekend I am going to retrieve it from storage and try to determine whether it is any better. Other than working it through the gears, can anyone tell me whether it is possible to determine whether the syncros are working before I fit this? Changing the gearbox is a bit more work than the steering box so If in doubt I think I will at least fit new bearings.
Cheers
Martin
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Post by Brendan69 on May 3, 2019 17:50:15 GMT
If you can afford to Martin why not just have your spare gearbox fully refurbished for you and then at least you will know your fitting a 100% new box and hopefully leak free too.
If price is good then you could also have your current box done too and keep as a spare or sell on. Jut a thought.
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then a small amount of adjustment is possible with a screwdriver to the large slotted rod end stickign out the top of the box. Don't try winding it out more than a couple of turns as it will end up hard against the top of the box.
