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Post by vetanari on Apr 8, 2020 17:56:56 GMT
Hi,
I hope everyone is keeping safe in these strange times
In another of the the many electrical (mis)adventures that I've had restoring this car, I've found another puzzle When I look at the wiring diagram, it looks like the power comes through the ignition but I get power at the fuse box when the ignition is switched off Basically, is this ok or is it another short cut by a previous owner?
Cheers
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Post by bristol406 on Apr 11, 2020 21:20:33 GMT
I believe that power to the wipers should be through the ignition/accessory circuit. My wipers stopped working recently and the cause turned out to be a faulty ignition switch. Replacing the switch fixed the wipers and a few other things which I hadn't noticed had stopped working too.
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Post by vetanari on Apr 14, 2020 14:32:53 GMT
Thanks for that
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Apr 14, 2020 17:29:27 GMT
There is also a live feed for the self park facility
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Post by vetanari on Apr 26, 2020 13:54:38 GMT
Thanks,that's a relief! I've got the wipers working but they won't park I'll have a look at the motor as soon as I work out how to get in to it
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 26, 2020 16:08:57 GMT
Thanks,that's a relief! I've got the wipers working but they won't park I'll have a look at the motor as soon as I work out how to get in to it It wont be the motor more than likely the wiper switch! If the wiring hasn't been touched?
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Post by 3litrekiwi on Apr 26, 2020 20:22:12 GMT
My wipers had the same problem, I replaced the switch with a spare from what I think is an earlier model P5. This fixed the parking but I lost my variable speed. With time to have another go at the problem, I pulled the switch apart to the point of taking the toggle part off as there are two rivets that prevent getting the actual slide out. A spray with contact cleaner and blow out with compressed air and the switch seems as good as new. Refitted and the speed control also works again. Looking at the spare switch, probably from a Mk1, there looks to be a diagonal jumper across two of the terminals. I think if this were removed the switch may be the same as the later one.
Cheers Martin
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Post by vetanari on Apr 27, 2020 19:44:18 GMT
Sadly the wiring behind the instrument panel has been mucked about with There is fairly mangled in places (mainly the red and white instrument panel lights ) The car is a saloon but has the instrument panel from a coupe. The tachometer red lines when the car is ticking over! I am planning to fit the proper one as that seems simpler than getting another tachometer (and I've got a spare fuel gauge/ temperature/ oil pressure dial)
I've already replaced the wiper switch with a second hand one from David Green (they weren't working at all) I'm getting the voltage that isn't going through the ignition (if you see what I mean)going into the switch and as it leaves the switch when the wiper is switched off but can't remember which coloured wire had the voltage. Even if I did, there's no guarantee that it is the proper one!
I'll have a look tomorrow if I can
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Post by vetanari on Apr 28, 2020 16:35:09 GMT
Well, I've had a look and it's not getting any more straightforward I'm getting 2 voltages at the switch (or more properly, the same voltage on 2 different cables The red green has a voltage as does the blue green They both go off when I remove the fuse for the windscreen motor To add to my bafflement, both show a voltage when the ignition is at its first position ( key can't move any further anti clockwise) I'll call that position 0 Turn the key to position 1, the voltages stop Turn to position 2 they come back on again Has anyone any idea if this is how it should be, or is it another bodge? I'd go to the pub to drown my sorrows but they're all ******* shut
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Apr 29, 2020 5:13:45 GMT
The ignition switch has 4 positions.
Far left : Accessories Middle: Off Right: Run Far Right (sprung): starter.
Theoretically, you shouldn’t be able to remove the key unless it is in the “off” position... hah. Old cars...
It is correct that you should have wiper power in the “Accessories “ position and the “Run” position.
This ignition switch configuration, combined with worn keys and switches, is the cause of many old Rovers ending up with flat batteries when they are inadvertently left with the accessories powered up.
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Post by barryr on Apr 29, 2020 22:12:18 GMT
You can take the key out with it running. The idea was so you could pop into a paper shop and lock the drivers door leaving it running.
I'm sure I saw that written in the owners manual but it was a long time ago!
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Apr 30, 2020 0:09:54 GMT
You can take the key out with it running. The idea was so you could pop into a paper shop and lock the drivers door leaving it running. I'm sure I saw that written in the owners manual but it was a long time ago! Well, I’ll be! I always assumed it wasn’t intentional.
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Post by Ken Nelson on Apr 30, 2020 18:06:25 GMT
General Motors cars in the USA in the 60's/70's (Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac) were all set up this way also. I always thought it was a nice feature. I drove Dodges (Chrysler Corp) then and always envied the GM drivers for that feature.
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Post by vetanari on May 2, 2020 14:51:38 GMT
An update on my update...
Firstly, thanks for the info, it has been a tremendous help
I've checked everything that I can
The switch is wired to the correct terminals according to the wiring diagram
There is power coming in at terminal 2 and terminal 5
When the wipers are switched on the power goes from terminal 2 to terminal 1
When switched off, power goes from 2 to 3
The power at terminal 5 goes to 6 when the switch is off and to earth when the switch is on
There is a voltage at the self park switch in the top of the motor
So... If all this is as it should be, is it just the motor thats knackered?
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Post by 3litrekiwi on May 2, 2020 21:51:03 GMT
If the motor runs the wipers then it will be ok. I don't see anywhere on this thread a description of how the system works and the search can be a bit hit and miss. The crank that operates the wipers has two stroke lengths. This is acheived by an ecentric on the "big end". With the power in wipe mode the eccentric is in the short position and the wipers cycle back and forth. When the switch is turned off this reverses the polarity to the motor and the motor reverses. The eccentric revolves in the crank and this extends the stroke so that the wipers can park. Only one stroke occurs as the additional length allows a lug on the cable to hit a microswitch which cuts the power to the motor. There are three wires going to the motor. If you run the wipers you should have voltage on one of these if you disconnect and test with a multimeter. With the switch in the off position there should be voltage on one of the others. Cheers Martin
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 2, 2020 21:59:40 GMT
Its on here somewhere - note that the variable speed works by inserting up to a 20 Ohm resistance in the White field wire. The Lucas wiper motor was used on numerous cars of the 50s-70s but many omitted the speed function and the standard speed was slow or about 48 SpM
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Post by vetanari on May 3, 2020 6:25:20 GMT
"There are three wires going to the motor. If you run the wipers you should have voltage on one of these if you disconnect and test with a multimeter. With the switch in the off position there should be voltage on one of the others."
Unfortunately for me I can get a voltage on 2 separate wires depending on whether the switch is in the on or off position
The only thing I can think of is that whatever causes the polarity to reverse in the motor is knackered
Does any one know which direction the motor turns when running, clockwise or anti-clockwise?
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Post by GlennR on May 5, 2020 9:47:45 GMT
Also nowadays illegal. If you are caught by a copper you will be slapped with a fixed £20 fine - or £40 if not paid within a given time frame.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 6, 2020 9:07:56 GMT
I am fairly sure it turns clockwise - I will check soon. It can only be a wiring fault either in connections, in the switch or in the motor. If the motor turns one way it will turn the other way or not turn in anyway
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Post by vetanari on May 6, 2020 14:41:54 GMT
Thanks for the reply
The clockwise thing is basically grasping at straws I was wondering if the motor was basically going backwards and unable to park
(told you it was grasping at straws!!)
I have a current at the connectors before the motor One connector when the switch is on and a current a another connector when the switch is off
The only things I can think of are a whatever causes the polarity to reverse is knackered or, as you say, a wiring fault
I've sent the motor off to David Green to be refurbished, so we'll see what happens when it comes back
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Post by ray on May 7, 2020 18:54:17 GMT
Have you tried adjusting the knurled adjuster on the wiper motor? That is what controls the parking and is adjustable.
There is an excellent section on this in the Workshop Manual, see "Section S" pages 25/26. Basically you turn that knurled adjuster "Until the mechanism stops parking ! Then turn it back 180 or 360 degrees, to get it set.
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Post by tarnowl on Feb 23, 2021 12:45:55 GMT
Hi All, I am having a few problems removing the Grill in front of the windscreen, as I cannot get the nuts to release, even after lots of Plus Gas! I am right that it is a right hand thread? I don’t want to apply too much pressure on in case I bend the mechanism. I tried to give it a little shock.....I got my wife to give it one of her looks!!😂. But even that didn’t work! Any suggestions gratefully received.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 23, 2021 15:13:17 GMT
Hi All, I am having a few problems removing the Grill in front of the windscreen, as I cannot get the nuts to release, even after lots of Plus Gas! I am right that it is a right hand thread? I don’t want to apply too much pressure on in case I bend the mechanism. I tried to give it a little shock.....I got my wife to give it one of her looks!!😂. But even that didn’t work! Any suggestions gratefully received. Leave to soak and use a long socket the nuts are very thin and soft
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Post by p5andrew on Feb 23, 2021 15:24:24 GMT
Definitely a normal right hand thread. As John says, care is needed as the metal from which the nuts is made is soft. Only if all else fails, try the very careful application of some heat using a small blowtorch. Beware, however that the Mazak from which the grill is made has a low melting point... There are also rubber and other combustible items nearby, making heat a last resort!
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Post by tarnowl on Feb 23, 2021 15:25:09 GMT
I’ve tried that, but as you say, they are soft and they seem locked to the shaft. I’ve also asked David Green and he says that he has the same problem with them. If I knew what thread they were, I would split them and try and buy two stainless ones. Because they are quite thin, a socket often cannot get much purchase on then as sockets often have a leading edge that can be a little champhered.
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