Gearbox oil change

[peterhawk58]

Hi clubmates,
I have a strong urge to do my first ever gearbox oil change on my 1969 coupe!. Its a standard Borg-Warner 35 i believe and is the original. The car has covered just 48k miles. Is there a recommended,modern lubricant that everybody uses?. Thanks. 

[eightofthem (Andy)]

Hello Peter.

Stick with the recommended fluid which is FORD SPEC M2C-33G / F
It is not usually available locally, however it is online.
Smith &Allen stock it along with Millers oils and Westway lubricants.

For a pan drain it will take around 3.5 litres.

Would love to see a few pictures f your car.

[Sam Bee]

I use Castrol Classic QTF from Classic Oils ordered online. But any ATF will do the job. Incidentally, Classic Oils have a huge range of lubricants.

[lagain]

I also use Castrol TQF which is available on ebay. I also change it every 12000 miles.

[peterhawk58]

Hi Andy,thanks for the info. Millers is a familiar name.

Will get the Major out of the garage and take some pics!

[peterhawk58]

Thanks Sam

[peterhawk58]

Thankyou

[eightofthem (Andy)]

Jan 22, 2023 23:03:19 GMT Sam Bee said:

I use Castrol Classic QTF from Classic Oils ordered online. But any ATF will do the job. Incidentally, Classic Oils have a huge range of lubricants.

Incorrect.

I would not use any ATF, use only the specified fluids, there is a reason for it.

[Phil Nottingham]

Jan 22, 2023 23:03:19 GMT Sam Bee said:

I use Castrol Classic QTF from Classic Oils ordered online. But any ATF will do the job. Incidentally, Classic Oils have a huge range of lubricants.

Any ATF will not do if its an original box. Ford spec NON DEXRON must be used eg the Smith & Allen or Comma AQF. Universal ATFS contain Dexron so must not be used unless the reconditioner of box specifies it

[enigmas]

I concur with both Andy and Phil with regard to the correct and appropriate ATF for your specific BW35. Read the literature and know the history of your transmission if possible. Don't wing-it or guess at the type ATF that suits the transmission. If unsure use type F or the equivalent to the original specification.

[Sam Bee]

Well how come the workshop manual and owner's instruction manual for both P5B and P6B have Castrol QTF listed, amongst several others? I've always used QTF in my P6.

[Phil Nottingham]

Jan 24, 2023 19:16:48 GMT Sam Bee said:

Well how come the workshop manual and owner's instruction manual for both P5B and P6B have Castrol QTF listed, amongst several others? I've always used QTF in my P6.

QTF?  I assume you mean TQF? This seems to me not to have Dexron - the "F" being "Ford" spec? As such its entirely correct if the box is original or has been rebuilt to original and does not have upgraded bands and clutches

[enigmas]

Look at the technical specification of the ATF Sam in relation to the friction material used in the box. If it's an original Factory built transmission built with frictions and bands suited to a non friction modified ATF, then a type F fluid should be used. Dexron type fluids were used in vitually all "early" model Ford BW35 transmissions in OZ and it seems similarly for UK original Factory built P5Bs. As for P6s, I have no idea.

Fords original type F specification ATF was unique to the company's use of specific transmissions (ie. BW35) that it used and for which Ford developed it's own unique friction materials. Other manufacturers and the transmission aftermarket industry developed their own friction materials requiring ATF with a different friction properties often to induce smoother seamless shifts.

TQF ATF may be a suitable fluid for original spec BW35s in P5Bs and P6Bs but you need to know the technical specification.


Below is a brief spiel from Penrite a manufacturer of classic car oils in Oz.

www.repco.com.au/en/oils-fluids/engine-oils-fluids/transmission-fluid/penrite-33-type-f-atf-transmission-fluid-4l-atf33004/p/A9336055


Penrite ATF 33 - Premium mineral formulation
ATF 33 is a special purpose, premium mineral, non-friction modified, red coloured automatic transmission fluid designed for Type F transmissions that specify M2C33-F or Ford SQM-2C9007-AA specifications.

ATF 33 is designed for use in older Ford transmissions and power steering systems wherever a Ford Type F or G fluid is recommended. It can also be used in manual transmissions that specify this type of fluid.

Resists oxidation
Designed for optimum (sharp) shift for drag racing
Provides excellent wear protection
Gives instant power transfer on acceleration

As an aside and others may not agree, but Type F can be mixed with Dexron ATF to vary the shift quality of particular automatic transmissions.

It's worthwhile keeping in mind that both type ATFs are oils not acids, so neither will degrade the hard elements of the gear train. You can experiment and decide for yourself.

Good luck.

[Sam Bee]

Thank Enigmas. Most interesting.

By friction I take it that refes to the brake bands. If so then I shall have to experiment as my P5B now has Kevlar bands.

[enigmas]

Hi Sam, "Frictions" refers to the clutch plates or the friction material adhered to the clutch plates (as opposed to the steel plates inside the clutch drums (x2 drums in a BW35). The clutch drums are comprised of both steels and frictions...it's just part of the jargon.)
The "Bands" are also frictions so to speak and wrap around the clutch drums.

You might find this chart of value


Your BW35 has seemingly been upgraded to modern Friction materials...hence the Kevlar Band (check with your trans rebuilder)

Your choice with the ATF. Dexron for smooth shifts and/or Type F for firm, race type shifts. 😉

Read the literature and make a choice...that's about it.

Nil Desperandum...it's not Rocket Science.

[eightofthem (Andy)]

Personally I would not recommend anything other than the Type F or G fluids be it a " rebuilt " transmission or original.

Other types of fluid were designed to operate in different types of transmissions for different reasons, either in the way they were designed and built, or how they were to operate and by that I mean the type of seal / seal design used within them,type of friction material and manufacturing process for them and how the clutch packs are designed to operate within the transmission.

There are many components be it vehicles or machinery that would benefit from advances in lubrication or cooling since the manufacturing process of that particular component was first introduced, however the BW range of early transmissions is not one of them in my humble opinion.

[Sam Bee]

Many thank chaps for all your words of wisdom.