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Post by djm16 on Jun 8, 2023 6:07:53 GMT
The title should say it all.
But I have a 1963 3-litre coupe MkIIb with a DG box. I changed the transmission fluid completely inc draining the torque converter when I rebuilt the engine. The question is how often to change the TF?
Somewhere between once in a lifetime (100,000 miles) for modern auto boxes and that stated in the manual.
FWIW, I drive the car several days a week with journeys averaging 30 miles with relatively few gear changes.
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Post by enigmas on Jun 8, 2023 8:05:49 GMT
Hi David, I don't believe you haul a caravan behind this Rover on a regular basis. If you're really giving the automatic trans a workout in a hot and dusty climate then it may require regular fluid changes. If the ATF smells sweet (and not like burnt toast) and it has a lovely pink colour (and is not brown and dark) I'd say it's fine.
Is DexronIII the correct fluid for a DG automatic trans or would a Type F fluid provide better and firmer shift quality?
The ATF should only require a change (in my opinion) depending on how hard you work the transmission. I generally change fluid when a band adjustment is required, although this tends to be subjective. I don't believe I've done it to my coupe since I rebuilt the transmission over 5 years ago, although the car doesn't get the usage it did when it was a daily driver.
Our modern (CVT) has just recently covered 60,000 after 5 years and although it's not due for a trans service I'm going to change the fluid and replace the 2 filters. It certainly can't hurt it.
Similarly if you want to change fluid say every 3 years depending upon usage of the car, how would it hurt the transmission?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 9, 2023 5:02:02 GMT
DEXRON 3 is not the correct fluid at all for a DG box - use Ford Spec AQF. Drain converter and box ASAP and preferably change again to flush
it out
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Post by enigmas on Jun 9, 2023 9:06:44 GMT
DEXRON 3 is not the correct fluid at all for a DG box - use Ford Spec AQF. Drain converter and box ASAP and preferably change again to flush it out Isn't the Comma AQF product equivalent to a Ford F type (non friction modified fluid) Phil? |
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Post by djm16 on Jun 9, 2023 14:20:54 GMT
Hi Phil, thanks for your reply. What would be the problem with Dexron III? Is it too thin? Is it not compatible with the friction materials in the bands? (I think it likely that the box would have been rebuilt with Australian parts sometime before I bought it. The bands had a fair amount of meat on them 6 or so years ago when I had the gearbox out and apart).
Enigmas. Thanks, that is what I thought. I don't tow a caravan, nor do I do rabbit starts. And there is no open breather to allow dust into the box.
The following types appear to be available here:
LV, FS, DX-III, DCT, BMV, MHP, TQ95. DSG/DCT.
I have no idea what any of these names mean or what the difference is.
Lastly, I note the manual says "use type A". Elsewhere on the internet I have read that Dexron III is backwards compatible with type, TypeA-suffixA, ...
So now I really am confused.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 9, 2023 14:26:00 GMT
DEXRON 3 is not the correct fluid at all for a DG box - use Ford Spec AQF. Drain converter and box ASAP and preferably change again to flush it out Isn't the Comma AQF product equivalent to a Ford F type (non friction modified fluid) Phil? Yes |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 9, 2023 14:34:52 GMT
Hi Phil, thanks for your reply. What would be the problem with Dexron III? Is it too thin? Is it not compatible with the friction materials in the bands? (I think it likely that the box would have been rebuilt with Australian parts sometime before I bought it. The bands had a fair amount of meat on them 6 or so years ago when I had the gearbox out and apart). Enigmas. Thanks, that is what I thought. I don't tow a caravan, nor do I do rabbit starts. And there is no open breather to allow dust into the box. The following types appear to be available here: LV, FS, DX-III, DCT, BMV, MHP, TQ95. DSG/DCT. I have no idea what any of these names mean or what the difference is. Any Dexron fluid contain friction enhancers that are detrimental to transmissions that do not need them. I understand they were designed for the more primitive General Motors Hydramatic transmissions noted for their rough changes. ZF boxes need it Borg Warner and Fords do not and it would cause damage in the long term. Some much newer Fords need the Dexron. So called "universal" ATFs contain it. In a worm old BW DG or BW35 it may finish it off more quickly by causing more wear and slippage to the bands and clutch linings. The DG box is expensive to overhaul so do not risk Dexron unless the seller of the stuff will indemnify your losses when the already worn box fails |
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Post by enigmas on Jun 10, 2023 0:11:53 GMT
Useful Sources of Information with regard to the Automatic Transmission Fluid used in P5 Rovers
What model DG transmission is in your car David? The Factory WSM I have doesn't specify the particular model. * The primary difference between Dexron and earlier specification ATF (type A & Type F) is the addition of friction modifiers to the additive package. Dexron fluid will not damage the hard components (gear train) of any BW or DG transmission. It is the specification of the friction material that is affected. Early friction materials were developed specifically for Type A & F fluid. If unsure use a Type A or F rated fluid (no friction modifiers) to produce a firmer shift quality. Current versions of type F manufactured by Penrite specify type F for performance/race usage when firm shifts are required. The sources below may assist in selecting the appropriate Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) for the transmission used in your specific model P5 Rover Links Below. Type A Automatic Trans FluidTransmission Fluid Compatibility Chart (PDF Download) Automatic Trans Fluid TemperaturesTransmission Fluid Colour Chart For BorgWarner35 addicts: BW35 Original Design Specification Fluid. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_35_transmission"The Borg Warner 35 was designed for use with Type F Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF), which is far less common today than the Mercon/Dexron type." * Later iterations of the BW35/40/51 (same case) were developed in OZ up to the 1980s to use Dexron. This may not have been the situation in the UK.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 10, 2023 6:46:38 GMT
Useful Sources of Information with regard to the Automatic Transmission Fluid used in P5 Rovers
What model DG transmission is in your car David? The Factory WSM I have doesn't specify the particular model. * The primary difference between Dexron and earlier specification ATF (type A & Type F) is the addition of friction modifiers to the additive package. Dexron fluid will not damage the hard components (gear train) of any BW or DG transmission. It is the specification of the friction material that is affected. Early friction materials were developed specifically for Type A & F fluid. If unsure use a Type A or F rated fluid (no friction modifiers) to produce a firmer shift quality. Current versions of type F manufactured by Penrite specify type F for performance/race usage when firm shifts are required. The sources below may assist in selecting the appropriate Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) for the transmission used in your specific model P5 Rover Links Below. Type A Automatic Trans FluidTransmission Fluid Compatibility Chart (PDF Download) Automatic Trans Fluid TemperaturesFor BorgWarner35 addicts: BW35 Original Design Specification Fluid. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_35_transmission"The Borg Warner 35 was designed for use with Type F Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF), which is far less common today than the Mercon/Dexron type." * Later iterations of the BW35/40/51 (same case) were developed in OZ up to the 1980s to use Dexron. This may not have been the situation in the UK. All Mk1-Mk2 P5s used the DG 150 box in common with other UK car makers that did not use the GM Hydramatic BW discontinued it when the lighter and simpler BW35 was launched but this was up to its limit on P5s but especially P5Bs as it was intended for 1600-1800 cars as well I understand the later BW65 used in P6Bs etc continued the use of non Dexron fluid but many rebuilders to now specify this fluid with the uprated bands and clutch linings often used |
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Post by enigmas on Jun 10, 2023 9:09:37 GMT
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Post by lagain on Jun 10, 2023 10:38:19 GMT
When I bought my car I was told to use Castrol TQF, which I have done ever since. I change the fluid every 12000 miles or 5 years, whichever comes first, hopefully to make the gearbox last longer.
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Post by djm16 on Jun 13, 2023 2:14:05 GMT
Thanks for all the replies.
If the only concern with Dexron III is that the added lubricity might lead to slippage of the bands, then I suspect I am OK. Even under heavy acceleration, the gear changes take well under a second, with a distinct lurch as the bands bite. (Not how I drive normally, I normally pick an engine speed and throttle to make the gear change as smooth as possible). The colour of the oil has always been number 2 on the chart.
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 18, 2023 21:49:26 GMT
Another question about the P5 DG gearbox - which specific type is it, please? I think it is 8 but what is the difference between that and the 150 or 250 boxes on offer.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 19, 2023 11:30:58 GMT
The Mk1-Mk2 autoboxes are the DG 150-M
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Post by Sam Bee on Jun 20, 2023 15:42:08 GMT
Many thanks Phil.
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