Post by Phil Nottingham on Apr 15, 2007 19:49:09 GMT
Perhaps the following tale may be useful for those facing this problem.
For some years now and several thousand miles the water pump has had some play in the spindle although was not noisy or leaking. Over the past few weeks however it has got very noisy though still no loss of coolant.
Anyway cautious of it failing entirely and losing all coolant as they can often do at some inconvenient spot I ordered a new high output type same as was fitted some 17 years and 60k miles ago when the engine was completely rebuilt. As is common, I was concerned that some of the bolts would have seized and break-off particularly the long ones that go into the block and the two that actually pass into the waterway. Last weekend I decided to do the job.
These actually came off quite well although I did get a bit worried that the stiffness was sign of the bolt breaking but they did not anyway.
I duly fitted the new pump but because time was getting on I never checked it turned freely when it was all bolted back up. After refitting the rad, refilling and starting up from the noise it made was clear that it was fouling somewhere.
I did not have time to look at it again till yesterday and discovered that the belt pulley was catching on the water outlet spigot leaving a score line at a high spot and thought about removing a little metal from the spigot when I noticed the pulley was approx 1mm further back than the crankshaft one so some form of shim would be needed under the pulley fixings. Comparing it with the old one the casting was far bulkier and different on the new and said spigot on the one was a good ¼ inch clear of the pulley. I then realised that the impeller must be catching somewhere inside so removed the pump again and found similar score marks on the front of the front casing. The impellor looked identical to the old one and both had been ground so I suppose I could have done the same but thought I would check up with JRW first.
As I needed to use the car I removed a genuine Leyland pump fitted to a spare engine, which looked Ok and was made in 1983. This was the standard type and although still a little crude looked better made than the new one. Several of the pump fixing bolts of both sizes on the spare engine did break however so if this engine is ever reconditioned, as it belongs to my current P5B, this will need sorting.
I also tried the new pump on the old engine and there was no sign of it fouling the inside of the front cover so I concluded that manufacturing/casting tolerances are not very fine either with the front cover casting or the pump casting.
JRW offered to check my new pump against others he has to see if its different I doubt whether it would show up though. He also said there have been one two reports of something catching from other customers.
The standard pump performs quite OK so I may leave for a while.
If anyone is interested I have some pictures.
What was most annoying was that during the winter I have noted a film of “rust” covering the oily parts at the front of the engine and on removing the rad showers of the cooling gills fell out and there are now several gaps at the read facing side. This was a recon one done by Sercks in Derby 10 years ago to three row spec. I was never impressed with it as part of the fixing brackets came undone during the guarantee so it had to be removed again for re-soldering. It went again 3 years later and I had it soldered up and pressure tasted at a local rad specialist who I know does a good job. I am not certain now how well this will perform this summer with the standard pump although no sign of overheating today so I hope it will last a few more years?
Any comments from the forum experience then?
1. How are modern recores standing up to salt laden roads?
2. Is the high output pump worth having?
3. Has anyone had any trouble with their pumps and having to fettle them to fit – its looks like this can certainly be done?
4. Has anyone successfully removed the remains of the fixing bolts 5/16 UNC from the block or do they need heli-coiling or is block scrap.
5. Same for front cover except these are ¼ inch UNC apart from the 5/16”UNC alternator bolt which has also broken
6. Is there anything to stop them seizing – I put PFT tape on the water jacket threads and coated liberally with Copaslip
.
For some years now and several thousand miles the water pump has had some play in the spindle although was not noisy or leaking. Over the past few weeks however it has got very noisy though still no loss of coolant.
Anyway cautious of it failing entirely and losing all coolant as they can often do at some inconvenient spot I ordered a new high output type same as was fitted some 17 years and 60k miles ago when the engine was completely rebuilt. As is common, I was concerned that some of the bolts would have seized and break-off particularly the long ones that go into the block and the two that actually pass into the waterway. Last weekend I decided to do the job.
These actually came off quite well although I did get a bit worried that the stiffness was sign of the bolt breaking but they did not anyway.
I duly fitted the new pump but because time was getting on I never checked it turned freely when it was all bolted back up. After refitting the rad, refilling and starting up from the noise it made was clear that it was fouling somewhere.
I did not have time to look at it again till yesterday and discovered that the belt pulley was catching on the water outlet spigot leaving a score line at a high spot and thought about removing a little metal from the spigot when I noticed the pulley was approx 1mm further back than the crankshaft one so some form of shim would be needed under the pulley fixings. Comparing it with the old one the casting was far bulkier and different on the new and said spigot on the one was a good ¼ inch clear of the pulley. I then realised that the impeller must be catching somewhere inside so removed the pump again and found similar score marks on the front of the front casing. The impellor looked identical to the old one and both had been ground so I suppose I could have done the same but thought I would check up with JRW first.
As I needed to use the car I removed a genuine Leyland pump fitted to a spare engine, which looked Ok and was made in 1983. This was the standard type and although still a little crude looked better made than the new one. Several of the pump fixing bolts of both sizes on the spare engine did break however so if this engine is ever reconditioned, as it belongs to my current P5B, this will need sorting.
I also tried the new pump on the old engine and there was no sign of it fouling the inside of the front cover so I concluded that manufacturing/casting tolerances are not very fine either with the front cover casting or the pump casting.
JRW offered to check my new pump against others he has to see if its different I doubt whether it would show up though. He also said there have been one two reports of something catching from other customers.
The standard pump performs quite OK so I may leave for a while.
If anyone is interested I have some pictures.
What was most annoying was that during the winter I have noted a film of “rust” covering the oily parts at the front of the engine and on removing the rad showers of the cooling gills fell out and there are now several gaps at the read facing side. This was a recon one done by Sercks in Derby 10 years ago to three row spec. I was never impressed with it as part of the fixing brackets came undone during the guarantee so it had to be removed again for re-soldering. It went again 3 years later and I had it soldered up and pressure tasted at a local rad specialist who I know does a good job. I am not certain now how well this will perform this summer with the standard pump although no sign of overheating today so I hope it will last a few more years?
Any comments from the forum experience then?
1. How are modern recores standing up to salt laden roads?
2. Is the high output pump worth having?
3. Has anyone had any trouble with their pumps and having to fettle them to fit – its looks like this can certainly be done?
4. Has anyone successfully removed the remains of the fixing bolts 5/16 UNC from the block or do they need heli-coiling or is block scrap.
5. Same for front cover except these are ¼ inch UNC apart from the 5/16”UNC alternator bolt which has also broken
6. Is there anything to stop them seizing – I put PFT tape on the water jacket threads and coated liberally with Copaslip
.
