Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 1, 2014 17:51:49 GMT
Hi all, Electrical problems keep arising. Two months ago the car stalled all of a sudden. Problem was a defect rotor. Last week the car refused to fire. The starter engine is new, and I fitted a new starter relay. I checked the starter by connecting C1 and C2. It turned all right. So the only suspect now is the inhibitor switch. I have a ZF-box installed and I am contemplating to bypass the inhibitor. A few years ago Harvy wrote: Disconnect and join the white/red wires on the inhibitor switch to prove it's that at fault, but DO NOT use the car like it. Read more: roverp5.proboards.com/thread/5249/engine-turning-overhi#ixzz2xkeOB9rAI was wondering if it isn't possible to bypass the inhibitor by making a new connection on the tarter relay (in stead of going underneath)? What is the consequence of bypassing the switch other than that the reverse-light stops working and you can start the car while in gear? Thanks Guus |
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Apr 1, 2014 17:58:11 GMT
Its highly dangerous as the car will start in any gear forward or backwards and WILL leap into fast forceful motion. Do not do it.
Test/adjust/replace the switch/relay and or wiring. It is not a big job
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 20:16:12 GMT
Hi all, Electrical problems keep arising. Two months ago the car stalled all of a sudden. Problem was a defect rotor. Last week the car refused to fire. The starter engine is new, and I fitted a new starter relay. I checked the starter by connecting C1 and C2. It turned all right. So the only suspect now is the inhibitor switch. I have a ZF-box installed and I am contemplating to bypass the inhibitor. A few years ago Harvy wrote: Disconnect and join the white/red wires on the inhibitor switch to prove it's that at fault, but DO NOT use the car like it. Read more: roverp5.proboards.com/thread/5249/engine-turning-overhi#ixzz2xkeOB9rAI was wondering if it isn't possible to bypass the inhibitor by making a new connection on the tarter relay (in stead of going underneath)? What is the consequence of bypassing the switch other than that the reverse-light stops working and you can start the car while in gear? Thanks Guus For about 20 years, my car has only started in "N" and not P & N. I acquired a good 2nd hand later type switch from someone on this forum who also gave me a lot of useful tips.After fitting the new and tested switch the car still only starts in "N" so the linkage is probably out of adjustment.The switch is a PIG to get at with the front exhaust in place (the W/M advises removal of the front exhaust) What I did notice whilst trying to refit the wiring is that the car will start in any gear when NO wires are attached to the switch! Later,I pulled apart the old switch and it was full of ATF but is very simple in operation.The plunger acts on a cylinder approx 1 cm in diameter and approx 1.5 cm's in length.This cylinder has a recessed brass ring approx 3mm wide which acts on the four connections as it moves up and down. One set of connectors(opposite each other)operate the Reversing Lights and the other seem to complete the starter circuit.The later switch just screws in with no adjustment needed (no locknut) The new switches available on Ebay are made in Taiwan and are apparently badly made. |
|
|
|
Post by enigmas on Apr 2, 2014 4:07:02 GMT
Guus the switch is there primarily for safety. If you have the skills, there's nothing stopping you from utilizing a simple contact switch that only creates a closed circuit directly off the gear lever when it's in park or neutral.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 8:40:48 GMT
Guus the switch is there primarily for safety. If you have the skills, there's nothing stopping you from utilizing a simple contact switch that only creates a closed circuit directly off the gear lever when it's in park or neutral. And something to operate the Reversing Lights. |
|
Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 2, 2014 12:29:53 GMT
Ok. And for that purpose I should use the red and white wire that are now going to the inhibitor-switch, or is there another way?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 13:39:32 GMT
Ok. And for that purpose I should use the red and white wire that are now going to the inhibitor-switch, or is there another way? Guus, I couldn't even tell what wires were what. I was working blind! It's a horrible unit to work on with the front exhaust in place.Reconnecting the four wires was trial and error not helped by the fact that the garage I was using wanted their inspection pit for an MOT so time was short as well.... not an ideal situation! The wiring circuit in the W/M is useless as it only shows two wires going into the switch but doesn't show where. I do admit that I'm no sparky when it comes to auto electrics and the wiring might be more obvious to others with more time and better facilities. The best way to get at the switch seems to be by removing the transmission tunnel and unless you can easily access the car from underneath that's the way I would approach it.At the same, you can clean up the area around the switch and links. Trouble is, you can't adjust the linkeage from above apparently so at some stage you have to access the underside. I would then just source a good used switch and replace it. As I said yesterday, it's very simple and the problem might just be adjustment of the switch (if you've got an early one with a locknut) or adjustment of the linkeage. Oh, and by the way, I've been told by a very experienced member of this forum that the linkeage set up instructions in the W/M are wrong! |
|
|
|
Post by Welsh Warlock on Apr 2, 2014 15:20:05 GMT
Oh, and by the way, I've been told by a very experienced member of this forum that the linkeage set up instructions in the W/M are wrong! I was told this by Barry Kent many moons ago. Rover issued a service bulleting about it and he gave me the correct settings which I have ... somewhere! |
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 2, 2014 16:19:41 GMT
It is a bit fiddly to get the wires on and off the inhibitor switch but it can be done without removing anything but the switch, Green and Green/Brown are the Reversing Light, White/Blue and White/Red are the Inhibitor switch if these are not joined the start relay will not come in! and it would not be a good idea to bypass the switch  |
|
|
|
Post by harvey on Apr 2, 2014 17:01:32 GMT
The wiring circuit in the W/M is useless as it only shows two wires going into the switch but doesn't show where. That's because the WM is showing you the inhibitor switch, you need to look elsewhere for the reverse light switch, and then know that the two switches are in the same housing. |
|
|
|
Post by barryr on Apr 2, 2014 20:22:26 GMT
Do a search on here re the set up for linkages. I remember someone posted the correct lengths.
|
|
Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 3, 2014 15:17:33 GMT
I bypassed the inhibitor and the car started fine. I noticed however that the gear was stuck on 'drive'. I couldn't swith to reverse or P/N. I think that explains the behavior of the inhibitor-switch. I thought I had it in P but in fact it still was in Drive, so the inhbitor refused to close.
So next problem, and this seems to be worse: although the gear-selector can be moved freely to the front and the rear, and I feel the stops at the appropriate places, the gear itself won't change.
Tomorrow I will try to open the gear-selector area from within the car. If anybody has an idea what might have gone wrong with my ZF-gearbox I really would like to hear it.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 3, 2014 16:03:50 GMT
I for one missed the ZF bit Guss sorry!
|
|
|
|
Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Apr 3, 2014 16:19:22 GMT
Guus, just to confirm things, are you saying you can move the manual selector on the side of the gearbox into each position, yet the gearbox does not engage any gears?
|
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 3, 2014 16:45:27 GMT
Not my field but I was under the impression if you kept the P5b gear selector you couldn't get the correct movement for the ZF?
|
|
|
|
Post by harvey on Apr 3, 2014 17:08:57 GMT
Not my field but I was under the impression if you kept the P5b gear selector you couldn't get the correct movement for the ZF? BW35 is six position, ZF is seven, so you'll lose the "1" position on the ZF if you use the BW lever. |
|
Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 3, 2014 18:28:25 GMT
Guus, just to confirm things, are you saying you can move the manual selector on the side of the gearbox into each position, yet the gearbox does not engage any gears? Hi Andy, The gear is somehow stuck into drive, no matter the position of the manual gear selector. |
|
Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 3, 2014 18:30:39 GMT
Guus, just to confirm things, are you saying you can move the manual selector on the side of the gearbox into each position, yet the gearbox does not engage any gears? Hi Andy, The gear is somehow stuck into drive, no matter the position of the manual gear selector. Indeed.I don't know how my meccanic did it (I am just the driver  ), but after fitting the ZF-box I used the same gear selector, only I could use P, N, D and R. |
|
|
|
Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Apr 3, 2014 20:04:58 GMT
Hi Guus.
Still a little unsure of your meaning.
I am talking about the actual selector arm on the gearbox itself, not the selector inside the car.
You will have to have a look under the car, and if need be, remove the selector link from the console selector ( whatever that may be ) and try it manually
In all positions, at the gearbox from under the car.
As an aside, it is possible to have the ZF select all positions with the existing console gear selector, including first, with no modifications needed, other than using a cable instead of the rod set up, and the fabrication of a few brackets.
It sounds like something is amiss with the console selector side of things, rather than the actual gearbox.
|
|
Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 4, 2014 14:09:21 GMT
Hi Andy, I went under and found out that I didn't have to remove selector link from the console selector...because it already was disconnected.. Somehow it slipped off. I took it out:  the ballshaped joint goes into its counterpart on the rod (still in the car). However: I can't get it in just like that. Must I apply force to join them? Wouldn't it be wise to make another kind of connection, because if it got disconnected once, chances are it will happen again. |
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 4, 2014 15:09:32 GMT
Hi Guus I am sure Andy will give you a longer reply as he knows more about ZF's than me! but the Nylon coupling just pushes on the Ball takes a little effort, they normally only come undone if forced too much?? is the socket distorted?
|
|
|
|
Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Apr 4, 2014 17:25:16 GMT
That's the one Guus, well done, nice easy fix.
Looks like they kept the original ZF selector arm, and just added the ball receiver for the original Rover linkage set up.
It would be a good idea to replace the ball joints, like you say if has slipped off once then....
Plenty of options on what to replace it with, and if you need more info on converting to cable, then let me know.
Keep the selector retaining nut safe, as it is not a standard threaded 13mm nut.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Apr 4, 2014 18:29:39 GMT
So how do you get the extra position on the selector Andy?
|
|
fred1
Rover Rookie
Posts: 8 
|
Post by fred1 on Apr 4, 2014 21:18:19 GMT
There is if I remember correctly a relay supplying the inhibitor switch on the right hand side of the heater attached to the bulk head make sure this is not the cause of your problems.
Allan
|
|
Guus
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 196
|
Post by Guus on Apr 6, 2014 18:49:41 GMT
That's the one Guus, well done, nice easy fix. Looks like they kept the original ZF selector arm, and just added the ball receiver for the original Rover linkage set up. It would be a good idea to replace the ball joints, like you say if has slipped off once then.... Plenty of options on what to replace it with, and if you need more info on converting to cable, then let me know. Keep the selector retaining nut safe, as it is not a standard threaded 13mm nut. Hi Andy, This is what I did.    First I replaced the original ball-part of the joint with a straight screw. I then softeded the corners of the nut to look like the original ball which fits the nylon cap. I drilled a hole in the nylon cap for the screw to go through. The last picture shows the end-result, just before fitting the selector to the gearbox. It all works fine. No problems any more with the inhibitor! |
|
), but after fitting the ZF-box I used the same gear selector, only I could use P, N, D and R.