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Post by JohnC on Mar 14, 2021 14:56:51 GMT
LEDs some love them others don’t.
I live in a rural environment and fitting LED headlights two years ago enabled me to flow with the traffic rather than have a que of vehicles following me because I can only see a few yards ahead. I carried out a lot of research before improving my P5b lighting system. Halogen was an option but I would need to fit relays to reduce the load on the lighting circuit. LED headlight bulbs would give me a much improved light with very little modification to the existing system. I contacted a supplier of the LED bulbs who ensured me at the time that they were legal and conformed with International lighting regulations. I also contacted the DVSA at the time and spoke with one of their MOT inspectors who told me that in their opinion it would only improve the safety of the vehicle, he also said that if a MOT station required clarification point them in his direction.
Now I read in the CCW that the DVSA have notified all MOT test centres that LED lights are an immediate fail. Having served my time with the Rover Car Company I am in no doubt that if LED were available to them they would have been fitted instead of the sealed beam unit.
Back to the drawing board.
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Post by lagain on Mar 14, 2021 16:16:56 GMT
I also have LED bulbs, apart from the flashers. I read somewhere that our cars pre-date the legislation for having LED lights, rather like black and white number plates. We also do not need MOTs.
If you do have an MOT test and use the same garage each year they may be lenient, otherwise swap them over before you go.
Back in the 80s I started going to France on my motorbike, I soon noticed that at customs the French stopped only bikes with white lights. I bought a genuine French yellow bulb and as soon as I got on the ferry would swap it over (both ways) I was never stopped again ! The bulb is now in my antiques cabinet !
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Post by enigmas on Mar 15, 2021 8:45:37 GMT
Truly George...what is wrong with a white light beam emanating from a classic car? I really don't understand the rationale!
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Mar 15, 2021 13:08:57 GMT
I'm pretty sure it is to do with the way the light pattern of a LED bulb differs from a quartz halogen: if the reflector in the surround is designed for the light pattern then there is no issue with them, but many of the retrofit LEDs available don't have a clean cut off line on lowbeam and can blind oncoming drivers. Also, the spread pattern can be inconsistent and the focal points incorrect.
Apparently.
I'm sure there is someone manufacturing an LED replacement for H4 bulbs which would be ok, but with so many potentially dangerous versions on the market, it sounds like those in the know and who protect us from ourselves (and each other!) have decided to go with a carte blanche ban until (hopefully) a manufacturer gets their version approved.
Until then, I'm glad I put big relays in my car for my super inefficient Quartz Halogens!
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Post by lagain on Mar 15, 2021 17:11:00 GMT
Mine are LED replacements for H4 bulbs and the beam is exactly the same with correct cut off. The problem is probably young oiks driving VW Golfs with LEDs from a car boot sale  |
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Post by Sam Bee on Mar 15, 2021 19:39:20 GMT
Of course the common sense thing would be to test each installation to see if it complies. Those with descent LEDs would pass.
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Jos
Rover Rookie
Posts: 39
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Post by Jos on Mar 15, 2021 19:56:38 GMT
This is how Tara Bordeaux in Austria did it. Pretty good job... |
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Post by Sam Bee on Mar 15, 2021 23:11:59 GMT
Exactly what I am doing. But using 'warm white' LEDs of the same type.
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Post by Jens Munk on Mar 16, 2021 7:18:34 GMT
Mine is already converted to H4 before i got it, so I just need to get some LED bulbs. There are no relays and the light switch actually gets warm.
How about the fog lights where replacement bulbs have been obsolete for decades?
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Mar 16, 2021 14:36:41 GMT
Hi Jens, The classic problem with P5's is that the headlight switch gets overloaded and hot, then the heat gets to the instrument binnacle facia and it cracks on the right hand side. Then you have to repair the binnacle facia and try to replicate the original patination on it. If your headlight switch is getting hot, or even warm, then save yourself further angst and either fit relays to reduce the current through the switch or take a flier on LEDs to reduce the current. (See above...)  The switches are getting rare, as are binnacle facias... and who knows how much stress the wiring harness is under. |
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Post by Jens Munk on Mar 16, 2021 15:49:28 GMT
Now you mention it, the light switch actually fell apart when I drove the Rover home after I bought it. I found and fitted another switch and I believe I have one more in stock. However, relays it is before hitting the roads again (anytime as soon as they quit spreading salt).
The H4's are actually OK, so with relays they will only be better and the switch last forever.
Hi Jens, The classic problem with P5's is that the headlight switch gets overloaded and hot, then the heat gets to the instrument binnacle facia and it cracks on the right hand side. Then you have to repair the binnacle facia and try to replicate the original patination on it. If your headlight switch is getting hot, or even warm, then save yourself further angst and either fit relays to reduce the current through the switch or take a flier on LEDs to reduce the current. (See above...) The switches are getting rare, as are binnacle facias... and who knows how much stress the wiring harness is under. |
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Post by djm16 on Mar 16, 2021 23:32:26 GMT
There are a number of things to say about LED headlight H4 replacements.
1) first, white does not equate to bright. In fact, I read a while ago that the best visibility for comparable candlepower is achieved with approx 4000k (or matching sunlight), similar to the spectrum a tungsten filament produces.
2) all the LED H4 replacements I have had a shorter lifespan than a halogen bulb, with the exception of a genuine Philips Ultinon pair (yes of course they cost a lot more than the cheap Chinese knock-offs, even the ones made for the store mentioned in the prior post). Shortest life 30 secs, longest 4 years.
3) the cut off pattern in all the knock-off units has been terrible. The best I managed to adjust by gluing a metal bar adjacent to the dipped beam LEDs.
4) lastly, because the light source is typically separated LEDs (per side) rather than a continuous filament, the light output is patchy. Some enclosures are worse than others. The carbonate fronted units on my wife's Subaru were the worst, and the PL700 front glasses reattached to modern 7" bowls on my P4 were the best.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 17, 2021 6:09:52 GMT
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Post by djm16 on Mar 18, 2021 5:47:23 GMT
So clear as mud then?
Retrofitting LED H4s to a 7" semi-sealed unit is illegal,
unless the lighting regulations of 1989 make them exempt, but we may change that shortly.
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Mar 18, 2021 6:36:05 GMT
The question is, does anyone make a LED headlight unit (complete with reflectors and lense) as a retrofit for older vehicles?
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Post by lagain on Mar 18, 2021 17:06:23 GMT
The question is, does anyone make a LED headlight unit (complete with reflectors and lense) as a retrofit for older vehicles? The answer is YES ! www.jwspeaker.com/products/Which one will you go for ? |
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Post by Jens Munk on Mar 19, 2021 7:51:50 GMT
This one is ECE approved, fits and looks about right:
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Post by Mike’S-a-loon on Mar 19, 2021 8:43:26 GMT
Oh, yeah, you'd never know it wasn't original!  |
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benedict_h
Rover Rookie
Benedict - P5B 1972 - Amstelveen, Netherlands
Posts: 74
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Post by benedict_h on Mar 19, 2021 9:45:19 GMT
Mine are LED replacements for H4 bulbs and the beam is exactly the same with correct cut off. That's good to hear, George, since the conversion I did was from original Lucas type 700 headlamp with 'duplo' bulbs directly to H4 LED, using adaptor rings, with unsatisfactory result. Fitting the H4 LEDs securely proved difficult, virtually impossible with no brackets actually. The beam pattern is not blinding people off the road, but too diffuse to call it OK. Anyway, so just to add to this interesting thread: the adapter rings don't work in my experience. I think my H4 LEDs are fine, though. As far as I can see (no pun intended), best next step will be to obtain a set of Lucas H4 sealed beam headlights, type LUB314, which are LHD. And take it from there.. Remains the fact that this whole LED headlight conversion business is still not up to scratch with the road regulations in this country too, although the ANWB (the Dutch equivalent of the AA and German ADAC) seems to be seriously trying to change all that ( click here only if you want to practice your Dutch  ) Car will be up for her final MOT coming August, as she's pushing fifty. Best not chuck away those type 700 headlamps... Rgds, Benedict |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 19, 2021 10:02:13 GMT
The beam pattern is spot on for both Main and Dip with my the Wipac shells with the P45T hole and H4 adaptor plate for the LEDs in our 3 Litre. Hopefully the guidance will be clarified as to retrospective application.
Often MOT inspectors do not pick this up anyway. With all the publicity given classic hostile MOT inspectors may pick it up. Its unlikely the police will unless there are other unroadworthy faults and offences to list
Our P2 we bought in 1996 with full MOT still had the Dip & pass system where one headlight went out and a the nearside low pass lamp came on. This was was outlawed in 1954 and it was retrospective along with compulsory rear reflectors.
I intend to do nothing for the present
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benedict_h
Rover Rookie
Benedict - P5B 1972 - Amstelveen, Netherlands
Posts: 74
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Post by benedict_h on Mar 19, 2021 10:36:36 GMT
This is how Tara Bordeaux in Austria did it. Pretty good job... Hi Jos, Helpful link, thanks! Incidentally, good to see a fellow countryman having joined the forum ranks. Welkom! I tend to find a wealth of inspiring info and anecdote here, I'm sure you will too. Have fun, Benedict (Amstelveen) |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 19, 2021 15:13:31 GMT
badge apart they are identical to my Wipac versions as probably made by the same firm
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benedict_h
Rover Rookie
Benedict - P5B 1972 - Amstelveen, Netherlands
Posts: 74
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Post by benedict_h on Mar 19, 2021 17:47:32 GMT
badge apart they are identical to my Wipac versions as probably made by the same firm You mean these Wipac Quadoptics, Phil? As identical to the Lucas LUB314? They do seem somewhat cheaper. And easier obtainable.. |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 19, 2021 18:09:56 GMT
No Wipac did a simpler version identical to the Quadoptics apart from using the 45T holder. I am not impressed with the Quadoptics I fitted to my wife's Mini in 1988. The reflectors rusted out by 2004 and the replacement set has gone the same. This car rarely gets wet unlike the P5s and P4s
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Mar 20, 2021 10:51:05 GMT
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The switches are getting rare, as are binnacle facias... and who knows how much stress the wiring harness is under.
)