Greetings.. I have a lovely old Mk3 P5 '67.. The engine is in above average condition, which I am planning to fully restore... Already stated to get bits sent out from England (I'm in Australia)..
I am considering using my P5 as a daily driver and as such was thinking about put a V8 engine from an SD1 in to the P5.. Now I'm sure that this is a little faux pas, but as a daily driver for city work, I think the V8 would be more comfortable.. So really what I'm looking for is some advise on what to do, what to look out for.. Does any one have any pictures or instructions on how to do this...
I'm going to keep everything original, interior and exterior, just apart from the engine and possibly the transmission..
Just on that, should I consider putting in a later Transmission, ie from an SD1 or anything.. Though I'm sure this would cause speedo issues.
Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks!!!
Andrew. you have what is probably the best version of a P5 Rover made, the MkIII 3 litre. The engine is superbly smooth and torquey - the car happily pulls from 10mph in top with max torque at 1750rpm = 36mph whilst V8 is at 3000rpm. It is a robust engine which you can run flat out all day and has perfectly adequate performance - Rovers are not sports cars. The car has good stability with the extra weight on the front. Yes, you will get more power and torque from a V8 but they run rough compared to the six. I am often asked by people familiar with the P5B how do I get the engine to sound so smooth, the contrast is so marked. They simply don't realise I have the straight six. Don't misunderstand me I am not knocking the V8, just trying to reassure you you have a better engine and car than you might realise. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
You have the latest box - Borg Warner type 35. It sounds as if it needs adjusting, light throttle should see 1st/2nd at c10mph (25-30mph full throttle) and 2nd/3rd at 14-15mph (55-60mph full throttle). Kickdown speeds are higher but I have never liked kickdown and as the adjustment goes off so quickly on my box - I just use lockdown (L) which gives more control, (the instant I relax the floored throttle in kickdown the box changes up). If you use lockdown your car should start in 1st; you could do this until the box has been sorted.
Post by Phil Nottingham on Jul 8, 2007 7:50:09 GMT
Fitting a valve body from a later BW 35 as used on the V8's will allow a 1st speed start - it was strange that when Rover first fitted the BW 35 that although they carried on the 2nd speed start from the Mk2 they did not incorporate the facility to allow first speed start without using kickdown (yours should have this and you could start in L and shift into manually?). They carried in this practise in the early V8's but gave a D1-D2 option - The arrangment was discontinued from approx 69 when they adopted the D -2-1 pattern which you need the valve body from. As the Mk3 has a rear pump, this may not work on yours though.
You should check yourkickdowm cable is adjusted properly so that shifts and kickdown happen when they are meant to.
Later boxes eg the ZFHP4 and even the BWW65 can be fitted but its a lot of unneccasry alteration
Fitting the V8 bellhousing and T/C is the minimum you need to get the V8 engine to mate up to the Mk111 35 box. The rear pump makes no difference. All 35 boxes have the facility to pull away in 1st, but the early D2, D1, L box is not as user friendly as the D, 2, 1 pattern, which most have been modified to anyway. 5 position pattern (P>R>N>D>L) will not work a 6 position box, so would need the transmission tunnel mounted lever. I have to say as much as I love the V8, the 6pot is a far smoother and more refined experience.
This again is most excellent advice... It think what I'll do it take the transmission to a restorer and get them to fix it up nice and proper. I shall mention to them about fitting a valve body from a later BW35 and see what they've got to say about that...
What alterations need to be made to fit a BW 65 for example?
If you have a 5 position selector(PRNDL) you won't be able to fit the later spec (PRND21) gearbox without changing to the six position selector mounted on the transmission tunnel. I've not fitted a 65 box but by using all the parts from a P6B I can't see it being a problem. (As long as you're using the V8 engine, fitting a BW65 to a 3litre engine would be more problematic) I can put you in touch with someone to overhaul the 35 box should you want to go that way. Internally all early 35 boxes can be specced up to the same standard as the later ones, you just need to know how, and to modify the selector.
;)Hi Andrew, And can i just say a big HELLO to all on the forum as this is my first post i was also thinking of doing the same conversion myself having just bought a 1967 3litre Coupe auto. BUT i think you are making a lot of work for little benefit ok i reckon the V8 is a real gem can't you tell by my user name BUT i can't see the point in doing the swap What are you going to gain ok slightly more umph! torque unleaded etc and a bit better mpg well not really as because you have the umph! you tend to use it or why do the conversion in the first place I am not meaning to sound sarcastic but i have a P6B Estate which i converted to a 3.9 injection and ZF 4 speed and have never felt happy about doing it really yes it's fast more economical and scarey when booted but i am now putting it back to original and selling as i think it's lost it's character as it were. I am going to live with the original 3Litre Straight Six sowing machine engine that is fitted to my MIII Coupe and appreciate it ;D I think these laid back beasties must be getting a bit thin on the ground now and if i am not mistaken probably rarer than the 3.5 Litre variant? Sorry for all my ramblings and whatever you decide Andrew best of luck but i think by your response the posts yours is gonna stay an original baby albeit running on unleaded fuel that is
Post by Phil Nottingham on Jul 12, 2007 21:46:49 GMT
Welcome to the forum - I hope you stick with the straight six. As to unleaded it will run properly on it with no VSR as it has hardened seats already in the exhaust valves and haed.
What can be a problem is that if the original Rover exhaust valves have been replaced over the years with cheaper after market ones they may not last. High quality ones are now available from teh usal sources and its always been recommended anyway to renew exhaust valves when deocoking as even the Rover ones do not take kindly to relapping in and can loose their heads
Phil - 1964 P5-Coupe PMB***B & P5B-saloon LHO***L & other classic Rovers & Land-Rovers
Post by Keith - Portsmouth on Jul 17, 2007 19:30:14 GMT
Cbv8, to find your private messages... Go to 'home' page Towards the bottom of the page is a section called Info Center Within 'Info Center' is a section called Forum Statistics To right of this 'Forum Statistics' box is some text like Your Private Messages: 1 New: 1
Click on either of the numbers in this text so see your messages.
Quite well hidden isn't it? Maybe there is an easier way to find it... anyone know?
Hi guys, especially to the fellow Aussie Rover Rookie. I've done what you proposed almost 15 years ago on my 1966 Rover MK3 Coupe. Bought as a wreck at the time the only 2 components in the drive train that were in reasonable condition were the gearbox and diff. The motor as sweet as these things are in good condition behind a manual gearbox and not a BW35 (wouldn't pull the skin off custard in this combination..sorry guys but I've driven several of these) was far gone. At the time I couldn't afford a P5B so this seemed a viable alternative. Modifications are as follows:
P76 V8 (4.4 litre). Almost a 1000cc in capacity larger than the Rover motor and derived from the same block but considerably wider if measured across the heads.
Used the original P5 front Chassis. Cut and notched middle cross member. Engine sits much lower than the P5B equivalent. Owner fabricated engine mounts.
Original gearbox and gear train used initially. Later upgraded all internals with BW40 from late model XF Ford Falcon (Aussie). The V8s have extra clutch plates and the Aussie versions of the 35 and 40 run larger brake bands. I also run the largest front pump. The valve body was upgraded for much improved overall part shifts. The BW35 valve body fitted to the P5 just likes to get into top gear as fast as possible and stay there...atrocious.. an easy upgrade is to fit a later valve body front servo and springs for a much improved shift across the range. The original valve body even kills the V8 with it's greater torque. If anyone has looked compare the 1-2 shift valve on a BW 40 with that on a Rover P5 and you will realize why a part throttle shift to 1 without kick down is possible
The P76 uses a larger bell housing which is a bolt on swap.
I fabricated tube exhaust manifolds which work their way around the power steering unit on the DS...the other side passenger was much easier for clearance.
I have fitted a piranha ignition kit to the distributor as dwell varied some 6 degrees with the original points system.
The vehicle was duel fuel (LPG) but has been tuned to run full time gas. (You can do this with a cheap plastic protractor if if you have a tacho and some mechanical knowledge of how the mechanical advance works).
The differential was the original rover for about 1 year. P76 motors have a longer stroke (they also have longer rods) and produce more torque than a 3.5 V8 for obvious reasons but they don't rev as hard, ie longer stroke. I rarely rev my engine past 3000 rpm, no need because of the "strong torque." As it is a daily driver (320 kms per week) partially on freeways I had the final drive altered to 2.9:1 ratio from the Rover 3.5:1 unit. To have this done the rover center was removed and a ford salisbury unit welded in (specialist job). The rover pinions, axles, brakes and wheels were retained. Later I upgraded the rear brakes to discs utilizing Mercedes solid rear discs and used Jaguar Mk2 calipers which with minimal alteration attach to the original rover handbrake rods. This gives 4 wheel disc brakes and no more rear brake adjustments.
Other alterations: Cruise control. 4 core aluminium radiator (overkill) Flex fan air-conditioning unit (rotary compressor)
Steering: Top wishbone arms cut and rewelded to improve the caster angle to 3 degrees to eradicate high speed wander. (Any body notice this on a P5B...very scary indeed)
Braking. The original master cyl drives an EA ford, fast fill twin circuit system, with integral booster in the boot. fitted on the left hand side.
Please do not confuse my vehicle with a hot rod. It has a standard appearance but sits slightly lower than most P5Bs. Runs a standard cam and idles very smoothly...LPG is a great fuel for V8s. It always amazes most anyone who has driven a P5 or P5B with it's smoothness and torque.
The vehicle was engineer certified after the mods.
If you want to retain the 6 cyl engine and improve it's performance upgrade the valve body in the trans to that of a late 80's model ford falcon, you'll be amazed at the difference..just my 2 cents.