|
Post by roedmose on Feb 19, 2006 11:15:11 GMT
After a busy winter, I am preparing to get back on the road. I have done different small repairs including new fuelpump and have had the exhaust manifolds off to recut the thread, but noting major. I have now started the engine but have excessive smoke from the exhaust that seem to smell a bit of coolant more than oil. So I fear I have blown a head gasket, but it puzzles me as it was ok when the cra was driven in in Novenber, and the car has been standing good and dry. If I look into the cooler, coolant is running free from the tube leaving from the inlet manifold. So questions arises : How to verify if the head gaskets are blown ? To save time how to check which side is defect ? Do people normally take the heads to a shop for leveling ? (I have a fear to get the engine even higher compressed as the problem with knocking is large enough now). And finally if the repair is done with the engine in place, how many hours to change both sides ? Any traps ??
In hope for advise as allways Frank, Denmark
|
|
taz
Rover Rookie
Posts: 92
|
Post by taz on Feb 19, 2006 12:20:42 GMT
Frank,
First of all it's very unlikely that a blown head gasket will let coolant out of the head and dribble on to your exhaust. When they go, they tend to allow exhaust gas from the cylinder escape into the cooling system. But this is all internal.
Pehaps you have leak around one of heater hoses? There are a number of ways to check for leaking past the head gasket - if the leak is modest to large you should see bubbles in the radiator, or even see the radiator belching as it trys to free the pressure. The top radiator hose will also be very hard to compress - you should be able to squeeze it by hand. If it's a minor gasket leak - you could try taking the car to a radiator place and they can check for CO2 in the radiator (exhaust gas) and they usually do that for free.
Cheers, Taz
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 19, 2006 12:43:25 GMT
Its not a difficult job to swap the headgaskets just time consuming (a day?) - if they are not leveled they can go again though its supposed to be better to fit the thicker composite type (+ manifold) There is no way telling which side unless you can see any water on the plug electrodes or pick up which cylinder is misfiring
There are usually more symptoms -eg misfire as well as the others mentioned. It coiuld just be condensation in the exhaust (or petrol).
Try the CO2 test but otherwise give it good run - watch for coolant loss.
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Feb 19, 2006 14:20:03 GMT
Thanks for the input. The smoke (or fume) I see comes out of the end of the exhaust - not from the engine compartment !! The whole neighbourhood is covered in white smoke, and I feel I can smell hot coolant in that smoke. Car has been standing with front end lifted whole winter. If there is a crack in the inlet manifold that might have let water into the engine ? All hoses were replaced last year and are 100% ok !! - If we ever get a dry day over here, I will give it a good spin and see what happenes (and remember my mobile phone !! ) - Problem is that spring comes so fast and we normally havn't a day to waste. So much to drive to, to attend !! So I had calculated with the car being ready to go !! - Phil you mentiones a "thicker composite type" of gaskets. Are these available from JRW or David Green ?? Can't see other that one type on JRW's website. And what do you mean with (+manifold) ? I assume that the thicker headgasket will require a thicker inlet gasket to compensate Thanks Frank, DK
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2006 14:39:42 GMT
Did you get anything in the exhaust manifolds when they were off? You should be able to get gaskets from www.rpiv8.com although I think it unlikely that the head gasket failed through standing. I assume your corrosion protection has been kept up to strength. Try and borrow a pressure tester for the water if you are still worried. A compression tester will tell you if there is a blown gasket.
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 19, 2006 15:14:16 GMT
Wadhams sells the gaskets and if you put on the thicker head gaskets you have to use the thicker manifold gasket as the shim stell type will be too thin.
If it is thick white smoke as that its not the head gasket its the brake servo and fluid that is burning.
Remove the inlet pipe to the servo - it just pulls out - and dip in the hole a long thin paper taper if it comes out wet with fluid then a servo refurb is called for.
Have you checked for fluid loss?
A crack in the inlet manifold or failed gasket could let coolant into a clyinder - never heard of this though
Do not drive it till you have checked the brakes!!
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Feb 19, 2006 18:22:05 GMT
Tx. Phil !
That might be a 'bingo' !
The rubber hose seems dry, but from the metal pipe I can see a little moisture on the paper. However the inlet at the engine is directly wet !!
Next is to try with the hose disconnected and see, alternatively insert clear plastic hose and see if moisture is bypassing !
I will update accordingly !!
Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Frank
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 19, 2006 18:25:47 GMT
I meant dip the paper into the servo body - fluid collects at the bottom and even in the vacuum tank under the wing if this is still on. Both should be dry
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Feb 19, 2006 21:06:34 GMT
I chose to remove the holding bracket for the servo and then removing the screw that holds the collar at the end of the servo. As soon as this was loose, fluid started pouring out of the servo. As to my knowledge this means a massive defect in the servo. I have been off the list for some weeks, but I think there has been some discussions about servos recently. Will check the postings !! - I have a servo from a P6 and this looks the same and is dry inside, so I might try this one instead. - 2 things might have happened that can explain why I suddenly see this problem on the first start after winter.
Firstly the servo might have failed just before the end of the season. And as the car has been raised high at front the fluid might have run back into the intake. Secondly I have changed the brakehoses and used a compressor-driven vacuum-device for sucking out air in the system. This device might have made the servo becoming defect if it was just about to give up. In both cases much of the brake-fluid I have re-filled after the hoses was changed must have ended up in the servo, and now into the engine !!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2006 21:27:18 GMT
if the cylinder has gone on the end off the servo it would put fluid into the servo and be sucked up in to the engine with the vacuum.the white smoke from this would smell sweet when burning from the exhaust and lots of it too
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 19, 2006 22:12:02 GMT
Well at least you do not have to pull the engine apart!
The P6 V8 servo will fit - it was used on a number of cars during the 1960-80's
I have heard the vaccum bleeders can damage servo and master cylinder seals but suspect they were worn anyway.
Brakes do not like standing idle and seals often fail quickly.
They can be resealed but my experience of this is that they do not last anywhere near the length of time as the originals so I just bought a new one in the end (two actually!)
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Feb 20, 2006 21:49:52 GMT
As a last assurance I have disconnected the servo and started the engine. Had it running for 15 minuttes and no doubt a large improvement. Still some smoke, but I assume it will be reduced to normal level, after a good run. - So I will paint my spare servo and install it; an easy repair after being almost in panic mode !! And replace this with a new one at fist sign of trouble as I expect my spare to give up soon again after being lying dry an stock for some 10 years ! - Thanks for the help and input.
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 20, 2006 22:17:01 GMT
Make sure it works before driving it! Hold foot hard on brake before starting the engine - the pedal should move down a good inch when engine starts if the servo is working. Sometimes the air valve and/or ait piston sticks and several applications are needed to free it
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Feb 27, 2006 22:16:04 GMT
Rats, rats !! The P6 servo is bolted differently, so I chose to swap the housings, and started by removing the housing from the slavecylinder on P6 one. And what looked dry from the end, turned out to be moist behind the big rubber diagraph. And if I move the piston rod in and out of the cylinder, It seems to be moist !! So I assume if would be stupid to install that servo; especially considering the vitalness of this component and the amount of work bleeding the whole system. So I think I will order a new one. - As my car is LHD I just wanted to check if the placement is the same on LHD and RHD ! On my car it sits in the RH side at the front of the engine bay. It is a Lockheed unit with a detachable clamp that holds the front of the housing to the rest of the housing. One bolt and the clamp is off and the housing is open. From my manual it looks as if several versions were used. Is that correct ??
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 27, 2006 22:29:09 GMT
The clamping ring is the later type which is found on brad new ones - earlier versions had a bayonet affair.
Its on the RHS on UK cars - some pics were on this forum sometime back
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Mar 19, 2006 19:06:51 GMT
I have now received a new servo from JRW and installed it. Piece if cake though bleeding the brakes seems difficult. I use the old-fashion way as I suspect my vacuum bleeding-device migth have destroyed the old servo. So I still have a little air in the system, but more important the white smoke is gone. Still more smoke that I remember though, so I will try a spin in the car to see if it will normalize. - We have had sun today here in DK for the first time in long time, but still lots of salt on the roads and some snow in the forecast so it will be a week or more, before I can get the wheels back on the road and test.
|
|
|
Post by roedmose on Apr 5, 2006 17:39:26 GMT
Spring has now finally reached Denmark, meaning that pouring rain has replaced snow and frost. We had 2 hours dry the other day, and I finally could test-drive the car. To my joy the smoke fainted rapidly and could only have been the last brakefluid been bruned off. The car now drives as it should and the brakes are also tip-top with the new servo. - Happy ending ! Thanks for the help Frank
|
|
|
Post by Phil Nottingham on Apr 5, 2006 18:16:28 GMT
Thanks for letting us know - its still very cold here but sunny
Happy P5ing
|
|