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Post by fingers on Oct 19, 2006 11:54:11 GMT
Axle ground the coupe to a halt the other day, it took the AA over an hour to get it onto my trailer as back wheels are locked solid. Now I can;t get it off my trailer or have no clue as to what the problem is !
Any thoughts on an easy way to get it off the trailer first and into my garage ?
regards
Graham
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Post by stantondavies on Oct 19, 2006 15:34:25 GMT
If the axle is locked, I would try to wheel the car off on a trolley jack under the centre of the axle. Take care on slopes as you have no brakes and will need to chock the front wheels or drop the car quickly off the jack onto the ground, if the car starts to take over. Good luck.
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Post by harvey on Oct 19, 2006 16:34:20 GMT
I would think the diff has locked up. I would jack it up while it's still on the trailer.Then you can pull the halfshafts, then remove the diff, and after refitting the halfshafts the car should roll, but remember to clamp the flexi hose to the axle and you should still be able to stop the car on the front brakes. If it's a rear hub bearing seized you will see that as you remove them. Do it with the car on stands not just the jack, P5's are HEAVY!
Take care and good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2006 18:41:41 GMT
Did it happen after a long fast run with no warning? A rear bearing would give plenty of warning and noise before the sort of catastrophic failure you have suffered and they won't fail at exactly the same time  I have never heard of such a major problem and, surely, the diff would only lock up after running for ages with no oil or major wear of the C&P or bearings. Is the car very high mileage? As both wheels are locked solid it isn't likely to be hub bearings. I think you have a broken C&P  Are you sure the gearbox hasn't seized and as a result the prop is fixed? As you have to do this anyway before you remove the diff assembly you will be able to tell immediately. |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 19, 2006 18:55:23 GMT
Bad luck - wheel bearings rarely lock a wheel permanently but they can do far worse.  Actually assuming the diff has not seized up through lack of lubricant, as the oil level is often neglected it could well be an errant crown wheel set bolt worked loose and jammed the diff gears  This is not uncommon - I had one go 4 years ago but in this case the bolt head was cut-off by the gears and was shot the the mild steel back casing like a bullet, letting out all the oil.  Remove one half shaft it may work -i f you pick the right one! :DThey can be a bit of job to remove if you do not know the way to break the rust seal - you need no special tools for this other than a sharpe cold narrow chisel - never failed yet The bolts were subject to several mods to prevent them working loose Are you sure its the axle not the gear- box? You will need another diff which I am sure David Green can supply but make sure you get the correct ratio for your model |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2006 19:04:38 GMT
As Phil has also suggested the gearbox, I would examine that first.
If there was a competition between the gearbox and the rear axle for strength, I know where I would put my money!
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Post by harvey on Oct 19, 2006 19:16:25 GMT
If you jack up, the rear wheels will contra-rotate but not turn in the same direction if the fault is with the gearbox. I can't ever remember a 35 box actually seizing up solid.(make sure it's not in Park when you try this) But the diffs are the same as those in Land/Range Rover, and they give problems on a regular basis.
And Phil, as you say bolts coming adrift and being fired thru the casing is common. I've towed plenty of Land/Range Rovers with the same thing.
If you need it I can put you in touch with someone to overhaul the diff for you.(or the gearbox if it does turn out to be that) I have to say my money's on the diff.
I await the outcome with interest.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 19, 2006 20:32:29 GMT
Thanks I said was not uncommon on P5(and P4) diffs - its less uncommon on Land Rovers but then these do get heavier use. It does sound like the diff has seized somehow and its easy to the box and it will be interesting to see the outcome as well
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2006 21:03:39 GMT
I always thought the diff assembly was bomb proof. Another illusion shattered! |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 19, 2006 21:09:05 GMT
They do last really well but its another example of Rover using a 1930's designed product in the 1970's - ratio's apart they are interchangeable with prewar cars. Overengineering was not a term Rover recognised in the design stage
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Post by harvey on Oct 19, 2006 21:35:40 GMT
They do last really well but its another example of Rover using a 1930's designed product in the 1970's - ratio's apart they are interchangeable with prewar cars. Overengineering was not a term Rover recognised in the design stage And still used up to date! |
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Post by fingers on Oct 20, 2006 11:42:13 GMT
Many thanks for all the advise I will endeavor to get the car off the trailer this weekend.
The car did have a whine from the back somewhere but nothing major, this happened only 5 miles from home so no long fast run, is did seem like a loss of power when pulling away from a junction just before it came to a grinding halt. It doe's go into forward and reverse gears as you can feel it engage and move about 1/2 inch but thats it.
I'll keep you posted but I'm not too good at this sort of thing
Graham
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Post by fingers on Oct 20, 2006 21:00:21 GMT
Managed to get the car on axle stands and rotate the back wheels freely by hand (both go in different directions) . When I put it in forward or reverse gear wheels lock up solid :' so perhaps not the axle after all ! |
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Post by harvey on Oct 20, 2006 21:14:54 GMT
My next move would be disconnect the prop and try turning the diff flange by hand.What you've done is eliminate the diff gears, if the diff flange won't turn the fault will be with the crownwheel and/or pinion.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 20, 2006 21:53:39 GMT
On axle stands turning the prop shaft by hand with the engine not running and gearshift in ANY position should turn a wheel. Disconnecting the prop shaft at either end will prove whether its the box or the axle as the output shaft at the box should turn if box good and the axle pinion will not or vice-versa if pinion will and box will not
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Post by glennr on Oct 20, 2006 22:01:00 GMT
Phew! I'm off to bed. Goodnight!!  |
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Post by harvey on Oct 20, 2006 22:14:44 GMT
I said disconnect the prop at the diff flange because I still think the fault is within the axle.
With regard to what you say about turning the prop Phil, if the prop will turn what you say is true, but the prop won't turn if the gearbox is in Park.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Oct 21, 2006 8:29:32 GMT
Thanks I did mean to to say that that why I started the the sentance in all gears
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Post by fingers on Nov 7, 2006 11:58:18 GMT
Axle update I managed to remove the prop shaft over the weekend and found the diff to be stuck solid. I am in the process of removing the diff but when I drained the oil less than an egg cup full came out ! (so much for a thorough service by a trusted mechanic) I now fear the C&P has gone into melt down, doe's anyone know the best way to go from here, I'm told to change the axle is the best thing as bits will always be left in the axle no matter how much you clean it out but this seem a little excessive. or should I just replace the diff and take a chance. Any Idea where to get one from and how much they are ? regards Graham  |
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Post by RichardF on Nov 7, 2006 13:26:22 GMT
If you've got the diff out it's then quite easy to clean the debris from inside. You may want to point a torch down the half shaft tubes aswell just to make sure. In fact at this stage it wouldn't do any harm to remove both half-shafts and flush each tube out anyway.
Try Dave Green for a diff.
Just one more thing - any reason for the lack of oil? Is it coming out at the hubs? Is the breather blocked? Or is the drain plug, diff gasket or pinion seal leaking?
Good luck
Richard
Southampton
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Post by harvey on Nov 7, 2006 13:37:02 GMT
Graham (fingers) If you check your personal messages I sent some info when you first came on with the problem which may be of use to you.
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Post by harvey on Nov 7, 2006 13:44:46 GMT
If you've got the diff out it's then quite easy to clean the debris from inside. You may want to point a torch down the half shaft tubes aswell just to make sure. In fact at this stage it wouldn't do any harm to remove both half-shafts and flush each tube out anyway. Try Dave Green for a diff. Just one more thing - any reason for the lack of oil? Is it coming out at the hubs? Is the breather blocked? Or is the drain plug, diff gasket or pinion seal leaking? Good luck Richard Southampton Just read the above and agreed that removing the halfshafts to clean out the diff casing would be a good idea,then of course realised that if the diff is out already how did he remove it without taking the halfshafts out first?  |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 7, 2006 16:43:51 GMT
Good point - perhaps they have sheared at the splines - both of them !!
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Post by fingers on Nov 7, 2006 16:48:57 GMT
I havn't actually dismantled the half shafts or diff yet, hope to get them off this weekend !
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Post by fingers on Dec 7, 2006 12:47:10 GMT
Hello all The diff has finally been changed, supplied from David Green, ( :)Thanks David) and works perfectly. The bearing around the crown had disintegrated thanks to the lack of oil and a pin has got mangled in the teeth causing the seizure. The mechanic when asked if he drained the oil but forgot to fill it up didn't actually admit to it but looked a bit sheepish when questioned. Luckily no other damage was caused and I think I've escaped lightly. Thanks for all your help and suggestions regards Graham |
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