Intermittent starter problem

[andymaslen]

As I've started using Babs regularly, she's developed this on-off starter motor thingy. I turn the key and sometimes, the first time there's just a click like a flat battery - but it's on a trickle charger so I know it's always topped up. Then I turn the key off and try again and bam! she turns over fine.

This only seems to happen the first time I start her in the day, ie after a night or two in the garage. Once she's fired up and I am driving home eg from Stockbridge as per my other post, no problem.

I took her down to the local garage today and they couldn't get it to happen (or only once) so couldn't do any diagnostic tests. Said it might be the solenoid or relay or something

So ... has anyone experienced this and do you have any suggestions. Bear in mind I am a mechanical non-starter myself, so I'd be taking your suggestions to the mechanics at Sportomotive.

Really appreciate your help/suggestions.

Andy M

[Deleted]

Sounds a little bit like the problem I had just before I rejoined the forum last August. I did some postings on the trials and tribulations of removing and replacing the starter
When it comes to Auto Electrics I am a complete plonker but I do know a thing or two about mechanics.
What I do know is that your general electrical connections etc to the starter are probably ok or else you would have total failure at all times.
The culprit is probably the solenoid which sits on top of the starter and your best bet would be to remove the starter and have it tested, cleaned and a replacement solenoid fitted.
You don't really need an exchange unit unless your starter is generally worn out with chipped teeth,worn bearings and a badly worn commutator.
A general clean and new solenoid restored my starter almost as new as the unit is very robust and well built.
Your BIG PROBLEM will be getting it back it in.You need massive arms and tiny hands. Also take plenty of photos and remember EXACTLY how you took it out.

[andymaslen]

Thanks crossplies - that's where the garage got to as well. Trouble was, they couldn't get it to fail when they had the car!

I guess I 'll keep going as is for now and if it keeps happening get them to take out the solenoid as you suggested.

Cheers.

[dorsetflyer]

I agree with Richards comments having had the same problem two or three years ago.
It very gradually gets worse until no matter what you do you'll only get the frustrating click and nothing more. So it's not a problem you should try and live with for long.

[Deleted]

Does sound like the solenoid, agreed. But....

Hada P5B a few years ago with all the symptoms of a duff starter solenoid that turned out to be a rotten battery box! The earth lead bolt had rotted on the main mounting and the current went through the connection nearer the terminal end. So if the lead feels a bit warm after the first start of the day, get the garage to check that and the body to engine lead. Will be cheaper than a replacement starter, at any rate!

[Phil Nottingham]

This is well known rot spot - it often speads into the spring box section/outrigger

[johnwp5bcoupe]

When I use my Coupe 30 years or so ago before my current restoration! it was a common problem on a daily basis when it didn't start I used to carry a long bit of pipe and a hammer and give the starter a good clout to make it work since I have rebuilt and now have more patience I took the motor apart including solenoid to find the copper contacts pitted and worn so my solution was to spin some new ones up in the lathe! it works fine now. If you think it is a supply problem anytime stick the headlamps on so you or someone can see the beam if they dim dramatical on turning the key you have a supply of earth problem

[johnbirmingham]

I had the same problem last year Andy, and like xplies says, it was the solenoid.See posts on thread started 16.4.06 by Gianni .I didn't believe the starter could be got out with the engine in situ until Phil revealed the existance of wobble bars !A good clean up of the contacts and she spun over like on a new battery.Fix it soon:Murphy's law will pick the worst possible place for the ultimate failure ! John.

[PatMcCoy]

Andy Just a thought
Maybe a long shot ,but when you had car Restoration
Did you have engine work done
I had my engine done and it would not turn over ,just clicked
Then i jumped it off another another car and the starter bellowed out black smoke
Took starter out must admit easy coming out but a pain putting back in
But after having starter rebuilt never had a problem since
Starts on the button first time every time

[dorsetflyer]

If as I did you can source a starter motor which is for a V8 Morgan Plus Four these are the same spec but are shorter in length so there is no problem in re-fitting.

[andymaslen]

Thanks guys - this is all really helpful and as everyone broadly agrees on starter solenoid as the culprit, I'm going to get it sorted by my local garage (a Lotus specialist who described himself as "old school"). He thought that it probably was the solenoid but couldn't get it to replicate the fault.

Are they a standard car part or do I need to go to Wadhams? On their site I think the only starter solenoid mentioned was for a P5 3 litre.

Andy

[Deleted]

When mine was replaced the specialist said they were easily available but I think they had to make a small alteration to the terminals.
The new solenoid looks identical to the old one in size and shape.

[Phil Nottingham]

They are standard and fit a wide range of pre-engaged starter motors - the Wadham's is for the 3 litres -being for the old fashioned Bendix drive.

They used even sell the end cap with the contacts as its this that burns or cracks - some have the coil shunt bypass terminal - others do not - it depends on which year yours is

[andymaslen]

Well, I just got Babs back from the garage where she's sat for four days in the cold with them trying to get the starter not to work. No joy (or joy) depending on your point of view. She started fine every time - just a quarter-turn too.

They checked earth lead, starter and solenoid, relay and all connections are nice and tight.

BUT they did say it might have been the inhibitor switch stopping the starter from working because it "thought" the car was in gear. Maybe I wasn't pushing the selector lever far enough into Park to get the switch to work.

Anyway, as everything electrical looks sound I will keep going as is. If all I have to do is jiggle the gear selector lever a little now and again I guess I can live with that. (Great to have her back, too - you get addicted to that sound and smell in a very short time I found!)

Thanks again for all the helpful advice.

Andy M

[glennr]

I have to slightly lean/ put pressure my select lever in Park for it to start. Another (accidental) anti-theft device anyway

[harvey]

If you check to see if you have a supply to the LT wire on the starter (when it doesn't crank) if so you will eliminate the inhibitor switch as the problem. You could always try starting in neutral to see if you still have the problem. Pushing the gearlever would suggest the linkage is slightly out of adjustment. Early inhibitor switches are adjustable with a locknut to lock it in the right position once set, later ones have to be removed, the plunger measurement set and then re fitted.

[johnbirmingham]

I may be wrong BUT I seem to remember that a faulty inhibiter switch fails to actuate the solenoid i.e. no "clonk" from under the drivers feet. If it happens again do listen out for where any "clicks" or "clonks" are comming from. It'a going to be a really rotten thing to be stuck out on the road with. On the bright side : it will usually go after several tries whether turning the key or waggling the stick.

[Deleted]

If you have a loose or missing inhibitor switch lead, there [glow=red,2,300]will [/glow]be a click when trying the starter,

[Deleted]

hi can anyone help, i have the same problem with the non start just a click. it started off every now and then it moved on too a click then i would try again and it would screech and then turn over fine. now i get nothing but a click coming from up near the relays and fuses are. i took the starter motor off and put on a jump pack and it kicked out fine everytime so i put it back and it still won't work. i have power at the starter motor if this helps with anything

[Phil Nottingham]

I assume its a V8?

A Lucas 6RA Relay protects the the auto box inhibitor switch this can stick - its is next to the heater box on the passenger side. Bridging the C terminals shloud operate the sater but make sure its in park and handbrake on tight. This will test the rlay or switch adjustment. OR it may be an ignition switch or wiring problem

However if the motor is screetching it normally means the bearings have worn and the armature is rubbing on the field windings which jams it. Testing off car will often seem OK

These can be replaced but the whole motor is best exchanged for recon - they are common and not expensive or fit a Hi torq one?

[Deleted]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes it is a v8, i have wondered what that relay was for!!! i will try that out when i return next week!

Thanks again