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Post by RichardF on May 15, 2007 15:25:50 GMT
I have purchased a twin-point Mallory distributor complete with ballast type ignition coil to go with my RPI engine rebuild. My car is a '72 saloon with the armoured ignition cable from the switch and thus no ballast resitor to the coil (mounted on the servo bracket). As I have not tackled this job before, does anyone have any advice regarding the best way to remove the armoured cable? Also has anyone fitted a ballast resistor coil similar to what I am about to do and if so what electrical feeds were used?
Regards to all RichardF Southampton
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 15, 2007 17:15:34 GMT
I have removed the armoured cable and fitted a console switch to operate teh accessories as rover intended up to 1971 when this heath-robinson device was fitted. Before that I removed the armoured cable and solderd a new coil supply.
The armoured cable relies on a non-balasted coil - if you want a ballast you have to the early starter motor solenoid with a bypass terminal on it - most later one do not have this extra one. This supplies 12v direct to the coil via separate cable when the starter is operated. If you just use the existing armourred cable it will always run at 9v
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Post by RichardF on May 15, 2007 18:37:26 GMT
Thanks Phil. How big a job is it to remove the armoured cable? Also I have one of those new small starter motors from RATSPORT. I was thinking of linking into the feed to the solenoid part of the starter to start the engine on full 12 volts to the coil. I am assuming then that once the engine fires, I release pressure on the starter key which breaks feed to the starter motor solenoid, which will then (hopefully, if I wire it correctly) bring in the ballast to the coil circuit for continual running. Does that sound feasible? Regards
RichardF Southampton
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 15, 2007 18:46:10 GMT
Yes that should work with the motor but use a meter to try it first. Just remove the steering wheel cowl and cut through the double layer armour with a junior hacksaw. Then solder on a new supply.
Others just release the band from round the top of the coil and expose the cable which can then be connected to the ballast and then to the coil
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Post by RichardF on May 15, 2007 19:35:25 GMT
Advice on using a meter noted. Thanks again for your help.
RichardF Southampton
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 16, 2007 7:27:28 GMT
Richard I have had a thought about whether picking up the ballast shunt off the motor supply will work properly once the motor is de-energised after releasing the key. This wil mean a reverse current via the ignition fed ballast will travel down the shunt wire to the motor and run it at 9v with massive overload of all ignition wires The special solenoid cap on the original early motors prevents this. The same effect could however be easily arranged using a standard 4 terminal relay energised by the starter switch to stater motor relay cable A ballast is not actually necessary as proven by the thief prrof coil. What do you think
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Post by RichardF on May 16, 2007 13:45:43 GMT
Phil,
You are right, there will be a reverse voltage feed back to the starter solenoid - I hadn't thought that deep about it to date, and may have missed it anyway. I believe the easiest way forward is: 1. Stick to present coil (no ballast). 2. Use a relay in the circuit with the ballast resistor as you suggest. I was only wanting to use the shiny new coil from RPI really but is not essential, so will stick with option 1 for now - unless I rig a jury system up on the bench to ensure the circuit will work.
Many thanks for your help once again.
Regards RichardF Southampton
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Post by DaveCole on May 17, 2007 13:06:19 GMT
RichardF I have removed Armoured cable to fit ballast to ignition. To remove armoured cable, you need to remove steering wheel & column shrouds. Remove ignition switch from column, on the back is the base of the armoured cable. Drill through rivet and then you can remove it with a bit of wiggling to break the clip at other end. Remove armoured cable and solder new cable. Next fit ceramic ballast onto coil clamp bolt. Connect 1 terminal to coil to HT side of coil marked+, connect other terminal to new ignition supply. As told you then make a connection between starter and HT on coil, this will give 12v boost on starting but about 9v on running (sorry can't remember which terminal on starter) Test and re-assemble shroud (good luck pain in arse)
Hope this helps
David
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Post by RichardF on May 17, 2007 13:36:07 GMT
Dave, Thanks for your input. I have spoken to RPI Engineering and they do not recommend a non ballast coil with the dual point Mallory distributor, so I will have to go the ballast route. I have one of those miniture type starters so will experiment this evening on the wiring for the full 12v part.
Thanks again
RichardF Southampton
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Post by Kev on May 17, 2007 17:07:47 GMT
Richard, where did you get your starter motor from and how much? seen them on e bay @ £180 is it the same? Cheers, Big Kev.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 17, 2007 18:36:33 GMT
Alternatively Richard - obtain a secind hand loom from 1969-70 Pb without seprate ballast and thiefpoof coil and remove temp coef coid feed - its apink cable and was used on many cars of the era and even Metro's till about 1985!
I would still fit the superior console switch fitted to all P5's from 1958 to 1971 however - the wiring mods are minimal and you get a proper Accessory key position without running the gauges etc
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Post by RichardF on May 18, 2007 10:07:43 GMT
Phil, Thanks for the idea. I didn't realize the difference in the switches; I will endeavour to get one. As for the ballast, that came with the coil and is now in place.
Thanks again. RichardF Southampton
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Post by RichardF on May 18, 2007 10:16:49 GMT
Kev, I purchased the starter from RATSPORT. I'll check my invoice tonight for actual price. It's a bit of a bear to fit in situ as the autobox cooling pipes get in the way. I solved this by bending a 9/16" open ended spanner to suit. The "problem bolt" comes as part of the motor(you cannot remove it from the motor as it's placed in the hole during build), as it's a bit difficult to start the thread. However, once the thread starts, it then becomes a matter of just tightening the two bolts in stages (the other bolt is accessed normally). Regards RichardF Southampton
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Post by Phil Nottingham on May 18, 2007 15:53:59 GMT
You can actually get the correct Accessory operation with your existing switch as the Ignition control feed bullets under the dashboard can be tapped into the former armoured but now plain cable to the coil.
I could not get used to the column arrangement after so many years of the console especially as my 3 litre Coupe has the console type anyway
However the console switches are easy to obtain new whereas the column one may have burnt terminals/tracking/high resistance to cause running problems
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Post by Kev on May 18, 2007 17:14:14 GMT
Thanks Richard, Just looked on the Ratsport website,they are £138 plus vat,little too expensive for me at present. Cheers Big Kev.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2007 18:24:09 GMT
Thanks for that.I'm glad it all went back together. Space and the right lifting gear seem to be most important. The reason I asked is that I have had, for 15 years, a shot blasted and painted excellent spare sub frame which I hope to fit one day ::)It is better than the one on my car and the front suspension is ok but old and tired on my car so could do with rebuilding anyway. In the meantime, I am thinking of having the frame powder coated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2007 13:29:08 GMT
guys, what coil can i use to replace current one. No idea what type is on currently and i just need to change it to see if it will run. Halfords are no help and no local factors stock any coils
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 5, 2007 18:57:55 GMT
Any standard non-balasted 12v coil will be OK, new from Vehicle Wiring Products or s/h from many cars of the 1960/70/80's without ballast eg Lucas 12HA.
Those Lucas Sports Coils DLB105 are the best on Ebay £14, I have had on one for yers, secondhand
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2007 17:26:34 GMT
cheers Phil, i removed mine and my local Lucas bloke has the replacement for it based on numbers on the bottom, mine being made in 40th week of 1976, apparently. Just hope it does the trick and we can get rolling again, then get berthed up in my garage for head gasket removal and repair without further "expertense".
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 6, 2007 18:26:12 GMT
Hopefully your 1976 is the so called higher performance version although I have not noticed any difference in practice. Our whole fleet of 2 Land-Rovers, 2 P5's a P4 , P2 and a Mini run happily on the same Lucas coil. Intermotor do one
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2007 20:30:47 GMT
Sorry man, the one currently on the car was made in 76.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 16:40:21 GMT
After trying to start with new coil, nout. Cleaned all plugs except rear right which wouldnt allow the socket to fit around it. It started and I walked round the car with arms raised in joy. Decided to drive the mile to my house before she conked again.... too soon, too cold, stalled 20 yards away and not a sniff since. Pain in the arris. Need to clean all plugs again and try again.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 8, 2007 18:45:38 GMT
You have to find out why it stopped - have you checked there is a spark when it does. Try hotwiring the coil direct to the battery control.
Are you still using the original coil feed? What year is your car?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2007 17:21:13 GMT
car is 73 tax exempt. one wire runs from/to dizzy and the other comes from the armoured cable, which rests on the wire itself. i dont know what other cars are like and no club members can look at it as they all live miles away. stumped i am. gonna have to hire a truck to take it to harold heaton in wigan to get it sorted.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 9, 2007 17:44:14 GMT
The so called thief proof coil set-up fails - if its not the coil, its the ignition switch thats probably failed. Hot-wiring is dead easy especially if you have fitted another coil but I am not giving instructions on here. This will show up the fialed ignition switch as it bypasses it
Email me if you cannot sort this
I have converted mine back to the simpler and more relialble console type
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