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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Dec 11, 2008 19:33:04 GMT
 I know this has been covered before but here is the proof. (Dont know if you want to make this a sticky) PART No ARE-- Ferodo GS 271 " " G6082 " " GBS 805 " " GDB 507H LOCKHEED KB 1072 MINTEX MGR 58 BELCO RG 4271 DON SGC 93/4 FERODO GBS 550 " " GBS 640 " " RTC 3418 " " STC 359 " " STC 2797 LAND ROVER 11" L.W.B 1960 ON- S2 - S2A-S3-110 THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I CAN SEE IS THE FRICTION MATERIAL IS ONLY 10" LONG AND THE P5B IS 11" LONG THE NEW SHOES ARE GLUED AND THE OLD ARE RIVETS (CLICK ON IMAGE FOR A SLIDE SHOW. BY THE WAY THE SHOES ARE NOT PHOTOGRAPHED IN PAIRS SORRY.) |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 11, 2008 21:04:00 GMT
Good idea - I wish the disk pads were as easy and cheap to get hold as though
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Post by Warwick on Dec 12, 2008 0:02:25 GMT
Good idea - I wish the disk pads were as easy and cheap to get hold as though I asked why this was so when I was getting some shoes relined a couple of months ago. I assumed that pads couldn't be "relined" because of the smaller surface area, the greater operating temperature, and the flat shearing action. I assumed that there wasn't an adhesive capable of withstanding this - and you couldn't of course rivet pads as rivets wouldn't cope either. So I asked what the bonding technique was that prevented smaller brake remanufacturing companies from making pads. When you inspect a disc pad you will notice that it has 2 or more large holes in the steel plate and the friction material extends into these holes. This is what locks it laterally and withstands the shearing force. I have always assumed that the friction pad was moulded into shape (with the bumps) and then bonded to the backing plate with the bumps located in the holes. But no! They use a press with a die shaped for that particular pad. Then the friction pad is placed in it and so much pressure is applied that the friction pad is extruded into the holes in the steel plate. Not sure if an adhesive is also used - I expect so. Therefore, unlike the seemingly more complex shoe which can be relined with relatively unsophisticated equipment that is not specific to the shoe, a disc pad requires complex and expensive equipment with dies made up specifically for that model pad. Therefore, small runs are very expensive. Question for the day - Why is no part of a disc brake called a disc? We have the pad, the caliper, and the rotor. Why isn't it a rotor brake? Why isn't the rotor called the disc? I'll bet it was originally. At some point some marketing dill has probably decided that rotor sounds more technical than disc. |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 12, 2008 0:27:32 GMT
In the UK what you call the rotor is the disk (or disc) and the pads are called disk pads
You lot have changed it!
The original Ferodo pads were made less than 50miles from here just outside Buxton Derbyshire at Chapel on the Frith. The firm is still there I think but do not make P5/P4 disk pads
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Post by Warwick on Dec 12, 2008 2:04:41 GMT
That's interesting. Thanks Phil. I can now see what's happened.
Due to the dominance of the American car makers here (GM, Ford, and the old Chrysler), some US terminology has crept in here. I'll bet the term rotor originated in the US (and I stand by my marketing-based suspicion).
We've picked up "rotor" while you've picked up the US spelling of disc.
I do find it refreshing that our American forum members use terms like boot, bonnet, wing, etc. It must be a brave North American who drives a funny little Limey car and uses words like bonnet.
Strangely, we persist with the name mudguard for wing (fender) although you'll often see them listed as fenders in GM and Ford parts lists. It's usually abreviated to guard - so we'd refer to the near-side front guard.
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Post by stantondavies on Dec 12, 2008 12:04:18 GMT
Disc is usually used for disc brakes, slipped disc, record, disc jockey etc and while disk (ex-USA) is used for computer disk.
Three countries divided by a common language??
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Dec 12, 2008 15:16:03 GMT
Series 2 LR are exactly the same size as P5 ones  As per list above!! |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 12, 2008 15:29:49 GMT
Only the LWB ones noted above - SWB are completely different
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Post by harvey on Dec 12, 2008 15:47:56 GMT
and you couldn't of course rivet pads as rivets wouldn't cope either. Not true that as I've had Dodge ((USA) One Ton trucks that had Rivetted front pads as standard and as replacement items. Never had any problems with them when running at all up weights of about 6 Ton. Only problem is the rivets will score the disc if you let them wear down too far. |
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Dec 12, 2008 16:47:59 GMT
So will the backing of pads if let get too thin as they do not wear evenly
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Post by Warwick on Dec 12, 2008 23:34:05 GMT
while disk (ex-USA) is used for computer disk. Not by me, Peter! Not true that as I've had Dodge ((USA) One Ton trucks that had Rivetted front pads as standard and as replacement items. Never had any problems with them when running at all up weights of about 6 Ton. Only problem is the rivets will score the disc if you let them wear down too far. Thanks Harvey. I wonder if anyone else did? (Thinks - My Mum's got a little pop-rivetter; perhaps I'll give it a try). |
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Post by enigmas on Dec 13, 2008 9:49:35 GMT
Warwick, I still refer to the 'disc as the disc and not a rotor! As for disc/rotor pads I had some made up about 8-10 years ago (in Moorabbin) and still have them, but they didn't work very well as the friction material was sub standard (no metallic 'sinters' within the pad material). Also under brake application the pad material would compress (weird brake pedal feel).
Solid discs are a different kettle of fish (whatever that means) to ventilated units.
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Post by Warwick on Dec 13, 2008 10:04:12 GMT
Glad to hear I'm not the only one left Vince. But then I'm accused of being a bit of a pedant. Slip up now and then - but I tries me best.
(I even know where the apostrophe goes, and when to use a zed or an ess).
It's a good thing all the useful info is at the top of this thread.
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on May 9, 2011 4:50:53 GMT
It must be a brave North American who drives a funny little Limey car and uses words like bonnet. We are, indeed, a strange lot. Maybe the best way to put it is that we are secure in our masculinity? You should see the looks that I (6'1" tall), my fiancee (6' tall), and our 95 pound dog get when we all pile out of the little Riley!!!!! Oh well. I can't explain it, but I love these goofy little cars. Funnily enough, British car owners here often refer to British cars as "LBCs" for "Little British Cars". I'll have to just use BC for the P5, though. It isn't all that little! Tom PS: Thank you for the brake shoe information!! It might just save my backside, as I need a set of rear brake shoes! Are the wheel cylinders, drums, adjusters, etc all the same on the Series II LWB Land Rover, too? That sure would be nice! PPS: The P5B has the same rear brakes as the 3-Litre? |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on May 9, 2011 5:41:52 GMT
PS: Thank you for the brake shoe information!! It might just save my backside, as I need a set of rear brake shoes! Are the wheel cylinders, drums, adjusters, etc all the same on the Series II LWB Land Rover, too? That sure would be nice! PPS: The P5B has the same rear brakes as the 3-Litre? Only the shoes  Wheel cylinders are smaller bore on the 3lt  |
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Post by Warwick on May 9, 2011 10:58:28 GMT
You should see the looks that I (6'1" tall), my fiancee (6' tall), and our 95 pound dog get when we all pile out of the little Riley!!!!! Tom Tom, so you haven't considered a Fiat 500 or Citroen 2CV? |
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
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Post by trymes on May 9, 2011 13:39:25 GMT
OK, so I will be heading to local Land Rover places and asking for brake shoes for a Series II LWB. Wish me luck!
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
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Post by trymes on May 9, 2011 23:07:09 GMT
Rovers North has indicated that all LWB Land Rovers from Series 2 109 to Defender 110 used the same rear shoes. I don't know if anyone can confirm...
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Post by colnerov on May 10, 2011 0:10:45 GMT
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trymes
Rover Fanatic
Posts: 241
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Post by trymes on May 10, 2011 4:59:03 GMT
Tom, so you haven't considered a Fiat 500 or Citroen 2CV? Actually, I would opt for the Spanish Seat 600, as I have fond memories of seeing them on the postcards while living in Spain, plus seeing a surprisingly large number of them still out and about up into the '90s. Tom |
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trymes
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Post by trymes on May 13, 2011 1:55:32 GMT
I was looking at the pictures from the OP again, and I noticed that one of the original shoes has a lining that is longer than the other. This actually conforms with the instructions in my workshop manual, which made no sense to me, as the old riveted pads on the car now are the same length, and similar to the new ones pictured.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2013 12:47:48 GMT
The LWB shoes I fitted to the rear of my P5b had linings the same length and as a result one was longer than the original set up where one is shorter.
I found this made no noticeable difference (in fact the braking in reverse is better if anything) but anticipate that maybe the wear characteristics might be different.A regular inspection should take care of that.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Apr 22, 2013 17:27:00 GMT
Doubt it - this the very reason why brake shoes should be fitted as matched sets as individual parts changed to improve/cut costs or in this case non-asbestos materials. Rover/BLchanged to spec of them several times during and after production ceased
The modern lining material WILL wear out the drums but unless you are going to do 100 of thousands of miles in the next 5 years I doubt it will be noticeable.
IMHO modern linings take longer to bed in and the quality varies tremendously some stuff is terrible - the old asbestos based ones are much better and even these had different lining grades and areas
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Post by Steve P5b on Apr 22, 2013 17:36:00 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 9:30:42 GMT
Thanks for the replies.
All four of the new shoes have linings in the same place on the shoe and the same length.The difference is in the position of the pegs that on the land rover application would bear on the snail cam adjusters,they do nothing when fitted to a P5.
On the P5 the trailing shoe would normally have a shorter lining,the design on other single leading shoe designs feature shoes of different lengths or thickness or the position of the linings on the shoes,some have linings that are the same on either shoe.
In reverse the trailing shoe becomes the leading shoe and the footbrake is now slightly more efficient than it was going backwards as it is now bigger.The other shoe is still the same size as it was originally so grabbing should not be a problem.
The car brakes evenly from any speed and today passed its MOT,the brakes all comfortably exceeding the standards required.
As there is a chance from original I believe it's possible the new linings will wear differently to the originals (which might be a good thing as the originals had worn very unevenly),hence I'll inspect them often but I don't forsee any real problems.
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